Just watched this by lance. https://youtu.be/EABZn-dh-w4 So if I use boiler safe water, would it work for espresso? Interesting

@"Bagpu55"#p40415 I’ve been meaning to try this for a while. Never really got around to do it.

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p40419 Yeh for sure, Im waiting on the chemistry peoples here to tell me what I need to add to a bottle and how much to add 🤞

I did try today for espresso and noticed some differences. Unfortunately what I had in the machine was pretty hard to begin with (80gh 40kh) and adding drops of 10000ppm only made the shot worst. But next batch of water will be 40/20 and lower and hope I get better results.

This basically underlines the point that the specific minerals affect the taste of the coffee without necessarily having an impact on extraction. You'd probably have to go back to the forum that shall not be named and find the discussion on this in which I suggested the idea of adding minerals after extraction just to prove the point, though I doubt I was the first to have the idea. Maybe little dropper bottles will catch on….I never thought it would.

so can we now buy cheap beans and cheap grinders, produce $hit shots and add water post to make them taste good? sweet im in,

just to add, pure distilled is bad for an espresso machine no?

@"Cuprajake"#p40532 Yes, do not put 0TDS water in your coffee machines (espresso, or otherwise).

> @"Petre"#p40511 adding drops of 10000ppm only made the shot worst. But next batch of water will be 40/20 and lower and hope I get better results. Should you be brewing in the espresso machine with 20ppm alkalinity? 10,000ppm sounds like a typo? If 1 drop of Lotus alkalinity (KH) is 10ppm in 450mL then 1 drop will be around 113ppm in 40mL and not practical for espresso.

> @"Cuprajake"#p40531 so can we now buy cheap beans and cheap grinders, produce $hit shots and add water post to make them taste good? sweet im in, No, it just tweaks perceived acidity, in the same way brewing with different water does, it just let's you brew with a 'clean slate' and dial in the acidity by taste, or find a value you like if preparing a new batch of water.

i was being cheeky - its alot of messing about dont you think? i use the dr pavliss water as he believed it added nothing to the taste of the coffee

Adding minerals post brew

Emc2

Rob1 Thanks. So essentially I’ve added 10 times the required amount. Nevertheless there was a definite improvement in taste!

MediumRoastSteam

Emc2 I was looking at some of those water recipes. The concentration varies wildly. If tastes good… that’s all that matters.

I’ve been trying it out too. I can taste a subtle difference, but I don’t think it’s worth the faff, for me at least.

https://www.baristahustle.com/blog/diy-water-recipes-the-world-in-two-bottles/

Emc2

MediumRoastSteam perhaps the water you use is already optimal. My tap water has very low alkalinity. I’ve tried using really small doses, just a few crystals in 50 ml and 1ml of this solution in the espresso. The difference in a stark.

Or it’s all in my head!

MWJB

[unknown] If you make 50ml of a concentrate and add 1ml of that to 30ml of your coffee made with water which already has 17.5mg/l alkalinity then you need to add 0.00756054g Sodium bicarb to the 50ml deionised water to make the concentrate. If you want to make a concentrate that adds 40mg/l alkalinity when you add 1ml to 30ml then you need 0.01344096g Sodium Bicarb.

Are you sure this is right? 40mg/L in 30mL is 1.2 milligrams, divide by 0.6 to get the sodium bicarbonate mass = 2 milligrams. 1mL of solution containing 2 milligrams would require adding 100milligrams (0.1g) to 50mL deionised water?

Still, the alkalinity would be 40mg/L plus the 17.5mg/L already therein, but 57.5mg/L isn’t a disaster.

Have I gone wrong somewhere?

Rob1

MWJB hmmm it’s possible I’ve broken the spreadsheet, haven’t actually checked properly will have a look and see what is wrong with it. To be honest I was surprised how low the figures were but didn’t check the calculation. What you describe sounds right.

MWJB

double post.

Rob1

[unknown] hmmm it’s possible I’ve broken the spreadsheet, haven’t actually checked properly.

Rob1

@Emc2 Ok - not sure what I did to the sheet but my copy was broken. The one available for everybody is working fine and the calcs were accurate (0.1g for 40mg/l alkalinity 1ml in 30ml). Sorry for any confusion.

JHCCoffee

I was thinking of adding some calcium carbonate concentrate to my espresso post brew, using a dropper bottle.

I had (many years ago)enjoyed the mouthfeel when I used to make brew water with calcium carbonate (before I knew about the calcification impacts on my boiler 😮or was ok with descaling 😮😲using vinegar 😮😮😲

I will use my Sodastream to dissolve the calcium carbonate into RO water. @Rob1 @CoyoteOldMan Any suggestions as to: 1. a recipe for this concentrate, and 2. How many drops to add to a say 27g espresso shot (in say a 15 in, 27 out recipe)?

Fyi, I currently use a sodium bicarbonate (aka baking soda) brew water recipe and will stick with that. The above is a post brew addition.

Rob1

None because you’ve already got the alkalinity you want and calicum carbonate will throw it off.

JHCCoffee

Tried adding several drops of @Rob1 s magnesium concentrate to the shot. All it does is weaken the strength of the shot, as I’m effectively adding about 0.15g of water (without any coffee dissolved in that water). I’m guessing that this is the equivalent of lengthening my 26.5g shot by about 0.6g (4x the 0.15g). Given my 15 in, 26.5 out brew recipe, the difference is noticeable. The strength is clearly weaker and the body reduced. With no change in flavour.

I then tried adding couple of drops of a high TDS calcium concentrate (about 500 TDS!). As expected, the mouthfeel was more fulsome, but the coffee strength was reduced, for the reasons stated above.

So for me, the idea of adding minerals to the espresso shot doesn’t work. Unless anyone has any other post brew suggestions.

MWJB

JHCCoffee I then tried adding couple of drops of a high TDS calcium concentrate (about 500 TDS!). As expected, the mouthfeel was more fulsome,

That would seem a large effect for adding just 150 micrograms to a shot? (5.7 milligrams per litre).

Rob1

If I were going to try it I’d use Magnesium and Calcium salts that don’t contribute to alkalinity (significantly) - chloride or sulphate or a mix. There is some idea of chloride and sulphate being in a certain ratio in beer brewing you might look into. What you’ve done is add both hardness and alkalinity which will kill the acidity. I’m surprised you can taste the shot as noticeably weaker with the addition of less than 1ml water though I guess that’s about 2.5% of the shot.

Emc2

I have been experimenting for a while- tasting the espresso before and after adding minerals post brew. The difference for me is very apparent. Probably as my brew water is far from ideal.

For alkalinity, I’m using Sodium bicarbonate as the previous post after adjusting for the alkalinity present in the brew water. 0.06 gm in 50 ml deionised water.

For hardness , I’m using powdered MgSO4. The hardness of the brew water is 1.96 Clarke which is about 28 ppm CaCO3. I aim for a hardness of 80 ppm. To achieve an additional 52 ppm, I need (52/407.3)= 0.13 gm/ litre . I need 0.13× 0.03= 0.004 gm in a 30 ml espresso. To make a 50 ml concentrate, I added 0.004×50= 0.2 gm magnesium sulphate to the 50 ml of the deionised water containing the sodium bicarbonate.

Adding 1 ml of this concentrate to my 30 ml espresso makes it sweeter and less sour.

Emc2

Thought I should update this. Adding minerals post brew to an espresso from light-medium roasted beans made no difference. If anything, it made the espresso a bit dull. The coffee where it really made a difference was a medium-dark espresso blend.

Looks like the effect varies with different coffees🤷🏽

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