Shipping July released today. it could of course be an April fools joke. Albeit a strange one… https://www.nichecoffee.co.uk/products/niche-duo?variant=43187239846019

@"Igm45"#p40972 Not an April fools joke….people have ordered.

Some time to launch! 😏 I see from the specs that it's physically bigger than the Zero….assuming this is - at least in part - to house a bigger motor for the flats?

I still believe it's April fool's, too good to be true….

@"[unknown]"#p41017 Have you seen he full manual you can download and read ?

@"MattH"#p41026 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0081/2076/2450/files/N685_INSTRUCTION_BOOK_ROW_83F_1_080323_WEB.pdf?v=1680015642

Two excellent videos from Jake. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKdyBJ7TkhU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C90i5RVoBpo

@"DavecUK"#p41257 There are a couple of others there now too. (why does the plug change colour 🤔???)

> @"Del_UK"#p41290 (why does the plug change colour 🤔???) Dunno? RH Lead swaps colour as well in the starting clip

Can I chuck my hat into the ring? Right, first off, this is not an engineering review. I was lucky enough to be asked by Niche back in October, to accept the latest version of the Niche Duo. I had to sign an NDA and that was that. A couple of days later, a package turned up and I thought, I recognise that. On inspecting the packaging, it is quite clearly designed with the Zero experience in mind. The packaging has instructions printed on it for starters. Once you open the outer box, there is a strap/handle to help you lift the inner box meaning that you do not have to tip it upside down to force it out! I received a gleaming white model that arrived with espresso burrs fitted to it. A quick glance through the comprehensive handbook to make sure that there was nothing I needed to be aware of, and coffee here we come! When I dial in a new grinder, I always pull the first shot at whatever it arrives set to and take my reference from there. The third shot was spot on. 16 gms on an espresso setting takes me 16 seconds. I did not suffer from any static, the grounds were nice and fluffy. I believe the burrs originate from Mazzer (both espresso and brewed). Eventually, I thought it was time to try swapping the burrs over. Again, no help from Niche. They selected me as tester for their idiots instructions, and I feel well qualified for that role. I have made a video that I will post and it took me 70 seconds or so to swap over. You raise the lid, unscrew the silver dial, remove the screw to tighten down the top burr set, then remove it. Push down on the bottom burr set and remove. The process is then repeated with the brewed burrs (these are a different colour, blue) in reverse of course. I am deliberately keeping this summary vague! I have no idea as to how they get a big flat to be retention free. Having swapped the burrs over many times, and since access allows with ease, whenever I clean it out the retention is minimal. If I remember I will weigh it at some point but as any Niche Zero owners knows, you learn to trust your machine and just accept the claims! https://youtu.be/63Iv5gUy1JQ https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqlKJZjg_ZPsfdrHkp5cDIoL_KjSXhE5E5st-00/?igshid=Mzc1MmZhNjY=

@"Del_UK"#p41290 because I have a white extension lead, which I took out of the vid 😂

Niche duo - 83mm flat

HarveyMushman

Having a bit of a challenge with the Duo now when switching between brew methods. It happened yesterday but I thought I might’ve just had some filter grinds stuck somewhere.

Today I ground 32g at setting 60 with RDT, and then this afternoon returned it to setting 14 where I’d brewed an espresso previously. The shot gushed so I made a second, assuming that filter grinds were in the chute. It happened again.

Adjusted to setting 12 and it extracted ok.

Repeated above and the same thing happened, I had to go slightly lower again after turning back from opening it up to filter to get a good espresso extraction.

All were with the same coffee (Caravan Daily Blend which is a medium).

Does anyone else experience this? I know most people switch burrs regularly too and I’m just using the espresso burrs so am I doing something wrong?

Cuprajake

I’d say it’s probably exchange of grinds

What happens if you do filter, espresso, espresso, does the second espresso time change?

HarveyMushman

Cuprajake

That’s what’s weird, it goes like this: (numbers are arbitrary for the sake of example)

Espresso - setting 14 - dialled

Filter - setting 65

Espresso - setting 14 - way underextracted

Espresso - setting 13 - dialled

Then if I don’t touch it and come back and make another espresso, it’s still dialled in. It’s only when switching between brew/espresso that things seem to change.

DavecUK

HarveyMushman Espresso - setting 14 - way underextracted

Is the time the same or different?
Do you always turn clockwise to the setting, to take up any “backlash” like you would on a lathe? For me it’s just habit, something I don’t think about.

HarveyMushman

DavecUK

I didn’t put the extraction times in as I thought someone might say ‘time doesn’t matter how does it taste’ etc.

The first espresso shot after the filter is a proper gusher, like 10-12 seconds. Then I dial it down and get 25-30 sec shots which tends to be the sweet spot for extractions on the LM.

I’m not totally sure I understand about the backlash but I overshoot the setting and then turn back to the intended point. I got into that habit on old Mazzer collars where the lower resistance turning coarser makes it easier to set than turning the other way.

I’ve inspected all the threads and carrier and it’s all well greased and looks fine. Unsurprising as it’s basically brand new but I’m a bit stumped as I know people are able to jump between filter/espresso on the Niche without issue.

Loonster

DavecUK Do you always turn clockwise to the setting, to take up any “backlash” like you would on a lathe? For me it’s just habit, something I don’t think about.

I would think the springs would take up the backlash.

MediumRoastSteam

HarveyMushman people are able to jump between filter/espresso on the Niche without issue

I don’t know how many people jump between espresso/filter with the espresso burrs only.

Did you use the filter burrs for filter coffee?

If not, then what Jake said - potentially some retention.

If you have, then shouldn’t be a problem as you are meant to clean the burrs and chambers (quick brush) prior to fitting the burrs.

HarveyMushman

MediumRoastSteam

That makes sense, I didn’t think about that.

I didn’t buy the filter burrs. I go back and forth multiple times a day and didn’t want to keep swapping. Honestly the filter coffee produced by the espresso burrs is adequate for me.

I just took the burr out and it does seem like there’s a bit of retention in there.

I think this just comes down to me looking for the ‘one grinder unicorn’ again. Can’t fault the Niche here.

MediumRoastSteam

HarveyMushman - yeah. Same here. But I don’t drink filter coffee, so just stick with espresso. Can’t fault it.

HarveyMushman

Tried a different filter this morning and a little disappointed. Definitely suits the med-dark roasts.

I’m a bit surprised Niche state the espresso burrs are capable of ‘great’ filter brews on the product page. I guess ‘great’ is subjective but given the comments here and my findings with it feels like great is a bit of an overstatement.

dfk41

HarveyMushman @LMSC Are you making better filter coffee now after plenty of use? I think Harvey is expecting a silver bullet perhaps?

HarveyMushman

dfk41 I think Harvey is expecting a silver bullet perhaps

Yeah I think you’re right here.

Totally my expectations at fault and not the grinder.

@Cuprajake I’ve got an Ode 2 I was using for filter duties. So admittedly probably a step down to the Duo espresso burrs. Not really surprising given they’re espresso burrs.

I think I might need to get used to the idea of buying the filter burrs and swapping.

LMSC

dfk41 I don’t brew filter on espresso burrs. It’s the filter burrs, which I use. It makes a great filter, the espresso is just over the weekend only.

Dave says the difference is obvious between the filter from espresso versus filter burrs.

I am going to sift some coffee to find a sweet spot on the espresso burrs.

Cuprajake

the espresso burrs? i put them on a par with the zero when testing, but as stated im not a filter person i only dabble.

@LMSC has filter burrs

Cuprajake

also did the duo replace a hand grinder? or did you use the all ground for filter? i forget

imo one grinder or burr set really cant master it all. thing thats why alot use hand grinders for filter, as they get great results

Cuprajake

i dont think you can buy the burrs on their own, unless thats changed?

did the ode have filter burrs?

HarveyMushman

Cuprajake

Ah I see. Oversight on my part 😅

Yeah the Ode has the’ Gen 2′ burrs (64mm) which are filter only. It’s a great grinder, in fact I couldn’t really fault either of my grinders I was just hoping to replace them with a single grinder.

Igm45

If you’re after the filter burrs I’m prepared to sell mine separately from the Niche. Just let me know.

HarveyMushman

Just been chatting with James at Niche who seems like a great guy. I’m going to return the Duo and just hang on to the Ode 2 and Mahlkönig.

I really can’t fault the Duo, it was great to try and it’s clearly a very well designed, well made product. As mentioned a few times I’m just looking for a unicorn of a grinder that I can easily jump between espresso and filter with multiple times a day with just an adjustment back and forth. I don’t think such a grinder will ever exist and unreasonable to expect any grinder to do it well.

It is possible, and obviously better with both burr sets but I think for me the compromise of having two dedicated grinders outweighs keeping the Niche. I think I also prefer on-demand dosing for espresso too.

Again, glad I tried it and if I was only drinking espresso I’d have kept it because as a no/low-retention espresso grinder I was really impressed.

MediumRoastSteam

HarveyMushman I’m going to return the Duo and just hang on to the Ode 2 and Mahlkönig.

Looks like the date with the Duo didn’t last long! 🤣

Question: What about the matching handle you ordered? Will you return that one too?

Igm45

This was what I was looking for too, I don’t think a grinder will give the perfection of both worlds. That said I’ve been hugely impressed with the flat max’s ability to do both (with the LM burrs).
It makes amazing espresso and very good filter, still early days but I’m hoping I can move from very good filter to amazing.
Super easy to swap between the two (just twist the dial 180 degrees). As with a lot of our gear, it doesn’t come cheap mind you.

MattH

Wow that was a quick dabble !

HarveyMushman

MattH

Yeah, I did use it quite a bit over the weekend. Probably 15 or so espressos and a number of filter brews. I had family over yesterday so made a fair few coffees. I wanted to speak to Niche early as I felt bad sending back a grinder that would’ve been used for too much longer.

If you go for the Philos I’ll be interested to hear how you get on as a fellow on-demand grinder. Coming back to the Mahlkönig just now, I’m definitely still an on-demand advocate.

Again though, couldn’t fault the Niche and the service/communication from them is excellent.

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