Shipping July released today. it could of course be an April fools joke. Albeit a strange one… https://www.nichecoffee.co.uk/products/niche-duo?variant=43187239846019

@"Igm45"#p40972 Not an April fools joke….people have ordered.

Some time to launch! 😏 I see from the specs that it's physically bigger than the Zero….assuming this is - at least in part - to house a bigger motor for the flats?

I still believe it's April fool's, too good to be true….

@"[unknown]"#p41017 Have you seen he full manual you can download and read ?

@"MattH"#p41026 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0081/2076/2450/files/N685_INSTRUCTION_BOOK_ROW_83F_1_080323_WEB.pdf?v=1680015642

Two excellent videos from Jake. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKdyBJ7TkhU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C90i5RVoBpo

@"DavecUK"#p41257 There are a couple of others there now too. (why does the plug change colour 🤔???)

> @"Del_UK"#p41290 (why does the plug change colour 🤔???) Dunno? RH Lead swaps colour as well in the starting clip

Can I chuck my hat into the ring? Right, first off, this is not an engineering review. I was lucky enough to be asked by Niche back in October, to accept the latest version of the Niche Duo. I had to sign an NDA and that was that. A couple of days later, a package turned up and I thought, I recognise that. On inspecting the packaging, it is quite clearly designed with the Zero experience in mind. The packaging has instructions printed on it for starters. Once you open the outer box, there is a strap/handle to help you lift the inner box meaning that you do not have to tip it upside down to force it out! I received a gleaming white model that arrived with espresso burrs fitted to it. A quick glance through the comprehensive handbook to make sure that there was nothing I needed to be aware of, and coffee here we come! When I dial in a new grinder, I always pull the first shot at whatever it arrives set to and take my reference from there. The third shot was spot on. 16 gms on an espresso setting takes me 16 seconds. I did not suffer from any static, the grounds were nice and fluffy. I believe the burrs originate from Mazzer (both espresso and brewed). Eventually, I thought it was time to try swapping the burrs over. Again, no help from Niche. They selected me as tester for their idiots instructions, and I feel well qualified for that role. I have made a video that I will post and it took me 70 seconds or so to swap over. You raise the lid, unscrew the silver dial, remove the screw to tighten down the top burr set, then remove it. Push down on the bottom burr set and remove. The process is then repeated with the brewed burrs (these are a different colour, blue) in reverse of course. I am deliberately keeping this summary vague! I have no idea as to how they get a big flat to be retention free. Having swapped the burrs over many times, and since access allows with ease, whenever I clean it out the retention is minimal. If I remember I will weigh it at some point but as any Niche Zero owners knows, you learn to trust your machine and just accept the claims! https://youtu.be/63Iv5gUy1JQ https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqlKJZjg_ZPsfdrHkp5cDIoL_KjSXhE5E5st-00/?igshid=Mzc1MmZhNjY=

@"Del_UK"#p41290 because I have a white extension lead, which I took out of the vid 😂

Niche duo - 83mm flat

MediumRoastSteam

Cuprajake - Yeah, I remember seeing it Jake. even something that just sits on top like a a small lid does the trick. It doesn’t need to click. It’s a shame a milk bottle cap is just a tiny bit too small.

Remind me again, what’s that exactly? Do you have a link to it? Thanks.

Cuprajake

There little plastic Easter eggs used for egg hunts. Full them with jelly beans etc

empee

DavecUK tompoland I’ve come up with an idea…but I don’t know if Niche can/will implement it or not. Until then a clear pop top from a container works well.

This would be my only complaint with the Duo. Not so much seeing beans flying about but due to the mess it makes as the popcorning beans jump under the lid and I was getting a ring of grinds on the countertop. Currently using a container lid but would like a more elegant solution.

Cuprajake

Video on how to calibrate the duo

MediumRoastSteam

I’ve had the duo for just over two weeks. I seasoned with approx. 1kg of beans, and I’ve been pulling two shots daily.

So far so good, but too early to compare with the Zero in terms of taste. As I’m not interested in filter, it’s only used for espresso. So far my observations have been:

it’s louder than the Zero, to the point my family have made comments. They never said anything about the noise of the Zero, but the Duo is louder. The fact the grinders are side by side on a solid oak sideboard with a top which is 2cm thick and grooved inside - rather than a kitchen counter top - amplifies the noise considerably.
I’ve just taken the top burr carrier today out to inspect. The threads are as clean as a whistle. The original grease is still there, and I have not brushed the threads or anything as it’s just clean. I have not seen any stuck beans or fines on the threads as reported by @LMSC.
it’s harder to dial in compared to the Zero. But that’s just expected, as it’s a flat burr grinder and those are more sensitive to adjustments. I was drinking a Brazilian single origin from Wogan, medium dark. 7.5 on the Duo, 20 on the Zero. I’m now drinking a Kenyan coffee and it’s on setting 4.5 (a tad too slow) but I think the ideal will be 4.75 or so. It was flowing way too fast on setting 5.5. Bottom line, on the zero one would adjust in terms of full marks. On the Duo, it’s in terms of quarter and half marks. Update: 4.75 on the Duo, 14 on the Zero.

MediumRoastSteam

New coffee, see: https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/105-whats-in-your-cup-this-morning/1074

It’s a Nicaraguan, Natural and boozy. The past few coffees, Brazilian, Kenyan had 7.5 and 4.5 on the Duo. Its as per factory settings - I never zeroed the grinder. So, based on past experience, for this Nicaraguan I set the Duo to to 4… and I got a ~~turbo shot~~ gusher: 18.5g in, 75g out in 23 seconds. Elizabeth registering 6 bar pressure. I actually drank it, and it tasted ****.

So this morning, Duo on setting 3… similar story, but I stopped the shot and threw it away. So set the Duo to setting 2 and try it again: 18.5g in, 50g out in 28 seconds. My next shot will be at setting 1…

Ps: turning the collar becomes stiffer at setting -5 if that makes sense.

Maybe this coffee requires a very fine grind? Once I get what the setting is I’ll try on the Zero.

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam Most of my coffee are on 4 these days - light / medium light. The Blossom’s Colombian La Reforma was a turbo shot at 19s at 4 on the Duo. The setting of 3 on the Duo gave me 25s shot. The Foundry’s Sebastian Gomez is also at 3 for 30s shot.

By contrast, the North Star’s Brazilian gave me 30s-33s shot on 6 mark on the Duo.

Cuprajake

how old is the coffee?

try a 1:5 add a bottom paper, and gun it, 15s turbo

MediumRoastSteam

Cuprajake - I will do that at some point Jake. But that’s not the point… it’s just how fine I have to grind this coffee. All of them were roasted on the 21st of July.

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC Thanks LMSC, that’s very helpful. So essentially you are having a similar experience to me. That’s just how it is I suppose. 😉

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam I struggle to get a shot above 25s-30s. I am happy if I get a shot in the 25s-30s band. The Blossom’s turbo shot was also nice. It didn’t have tasting notes on the bag. I thought it was Mango. I asked them what the notes are, and they confirmed it was indeed Mango. So, I think the grind setting is in the zone.

I think, we should get used to faster shots with flats. I don’t why, though. :-)

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC I think, we should get used to faster shots with flats. I don’t why, though. :-)

Nah. I had flats many years ago and you can get very tasty espresso from them. Just because it’s flat doesn’t mean it has to run faster. And one can always grind finer in order for the shot to run slower. I’ll keep updating this thread with my findings.

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam The lowest setting I have had so far is 2 on the Duo for one of the coffee bags. That gave me 50s shot. I didn’t like the shot.

Cuprajake

perhaps there are less fines due to the slower rpm..

JahLaza

I’ve found it’s very bean dependant. Some, like monsoon malabar, or Rwanda are very contankerous. I tend to grind very fine to not get a gusher and then the compromise is that I get spraying!! But when it’s right, the taste is great so all a compromise eh? Earlier on in my domestic coffee making career I paid a good bit extra for a Rwanda I think it was from one of my usual roasters, and after much contemplation sent them an email complaining there was a problem with the beans (I though I was experienced at that stage and knew how to dial in etc). Turns out the beans were fine it’s just how they go when ground for espresso. I ate humble pie, apologised to the roaster and begged forgiveness so they would continue to send me a great product with great customer service!!

MediumRoastSteam

Update: I checked again. The sound of the grinder starts changing when It just goes past zero on the dial. I just poured a very tasty shot at setting 0.5 with that Nicaraguan coffee (see a few posts above). 18.5g in, 45g out in 39 seconds. A very fine grind!

DavecUK

It’s important to remember the very slow burr speed for burr size means that they have to be much closer together to get the same grind size. This is because coffee isn’t milling against itself and producing fines, the burrs are doing the work as they are not “over packed”. When I tested, these produce an espresso grind at almost half the distance burrs in higher RPM grinders use!

As you get closer and closer, very small adjustments can make a much larger difference than you think!

tompoland

DavecUK does that mean that the finer we go there is a disproportionately bigger difference in pour rates relative to coaser grind sizes?

DavecUK

tompoland does that mean that the finer we go there is a disproportionately bigger difference in pour rates relative to coaser grind sizes?

It’s not linear on any grinder (flat)

tompoland

DavecUK thanks.

so that is a “yes” to my question?

I guess it’s a yes because it makes sense. Larger grind sizes - larger sweet spot. Does that sound like a fair way to describe the difference?

MediumRoastSteam

tompoland Larger grind sizes - larger sweet spot.

I don’t understand this statement. You could argue that, if the Duo had a finer thread such as found in Mazzer and DF64 etc, there is more room for adjustment to find that “sweet spot”, as in, a larger adjustment on the collar would mean less difference in terms of grind size, thus allowing you to have a finer control. I don’t think the size of the burrs matter that much to that extent, if I get what you are trying to say. 😉That however would go against the Niche brand in terms of being a domestic, fool proof easy to live with grinder, let alone it would be painful to swap burrs let alone the risk of cross threading.

tompoland so that is a “yes” to my question?

I think Dave’s answer is a “yes” to your question.

DavecUK

tompoland I guess it’s a yes because it makes sense. Larger grind sizes - larger sweet spot. Does that sound like a fair way to describe the difference?

not quite, there’s other factors at play affecting grind as you close up the burrs, which is why Turkish burrs exist.

MediumRoastSteam You could argue that, if the Duo had a finer thread such as found in Mazzer and DF64 etc,

I think the Duo thread pitch is the same as the Mazzers?

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