Shipping July released today. it could of course be an April fools joke. Albeit a strange one… https://www.nichecoffee.co.uk/products/niche-duo?variant=43187239846019

@"Igm45"#p40972 Not an April fools joke….people have ordered.

Some time to launch! 😏 I see from the specs that it's physically bigger than the Zero….assuming this is - at least in part - to house a bigger motor for the flats?

I still believe it's April fool's, too good to be true….

@"[unknown]"#p41017 Have you seen he full manual you can download and read ?

@"MattH"#p41026 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0081/2076/2450/files/N685_INSTRUCTION_BOOK_ROW_83F_1_080323_WEB.pdf?v=1680015642

Two excellent videos from Jake. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKdyBJ7TkhU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C90i5RVoBpo

@"DavecUK"#p41257 There are a couple of others there now too. (why does the plug change colour 🤔???)

> @"Del_UK"#p41290 (why does the plug change colour 🤔???) Dunno? RH Lead swaps colour as well in the starting clip

Can I chuck my hat into the ring? Right, first off, this is not an engineering review. I was lucky enough to be asked by Niche back in October, to accept the latest version of the Niche Duo. I had to sign an NDA and that was that. A couple of days later, a package turned up and I thought, I recognise that. On inspecting the packaging, it is quite clearly designed with the Zero experience in mind. The packaging has instructions printed on it for starters. Once you open the outer box, there is a strap/handle to help you lift the inner box meaning that you do not have to tip it upside down to force it out! I received a gleaming white model that arrived with espresso burrs fitted to it. A quick glance through the comprehensive handbook to make sure that there was nothing I needed to be aware of, and coffee here we come! When I dial in a new grinder, I always pull the first shot at whatever it arrives set to and take my reference from there. The third shot was spot on. 16 gms on an espresso setting takes me 16 seconds. I did not suffer from any static, the grounds were nice and fluffy. I believe the burrs originate from Mazzer (both espresso and brewed). Eventually, I thought it was time to try swapping the burrs over. Again, no help from Niche. They selected me as tester for their idiots instructions, and I feel well qualified for that role. I have made a video that I will post and it took me 70 seconds or so to swap over. You raise the lid, unscrew the silver dial, remove the screw to tighten down the top burr set, then remove it. Push down on the bottom burr set and remove. The process is then repeated with the brewed burrs (these are a different colour, blue) in reverse of course. I am deliberately keeping this summary vague! I have no idea as to how they get a big flat to be retention free. Having swapped the burrs over many times, and since access allows with ease, whenever I clean it out the retention is minimal. If I remember I will weigh it at some point but as any Niche Zero owners knows, you learn to trust your machine and just accept the claims! https://youtu.be/63Iv5gUy1JQ https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqlKJZjg_ZPsfdrHkp5cDIoL_KjSXhE5E5st-00/?igshid=Mzc1MmZhNjY=

@"Del_UK"#p41290 because I have a white extension lead, which I took out of the vid 😂

Niche duo - 83mm flat

Cuprajake

Hoon using the filter burrs for espresso

Dusk

Cuprajake

I think it was a pretty positive review but I got the feeling he was expecting a game changer like the NZ which he doesn’t think the Duo is.

Perhaps we’re getting to a point with grinders where cars reached a while ago, it’s difficult to buy a bad one so it’s more about getting the right requirements within your own set budget.

Cuprajake

Yeah, but that won’t get the clicks haha

I think it’s great there’s now competition and more at every price point

When I started and it’s only 3yrs ago there was nothing, bar the niche and mignons at that sort of lower end

Hate to say it even the duo is lower end when it comes to grinders.

LMSC

The thing is, IMO, we have become too fuzzy and think can’t be asked to swap burrs considering it takes just a minute. Boiling water on a kettle takes two. 🤷

The negative now is a dual burr is inconvenient and time consuming than the ease of changing the dial like any grinder. If this is the case, why there was so much fuss that Niche s***ed for filter? There is a reason why manufacturers sells filter only burr set, right.

I get it if some one wants just an espresso burr set and happy with the filter it makes. I think it is a fair. I also understand if we stay away for reasons of affordability.

Ernie1

LMSC The thing is, IMO, we have become too fuzzy and think can’t be asked to swap burrs considering it takes just a minute. Boiling water on a kettle takes two. 🤷

I think this is reflective of human nature as a whole in 2023. We’re increasingly lazy and reliant on automated, instantaneous processes. It’s not about how long in seconds or minutes it takes to switch burrs, I’d imagine it’s the (perceived) ‘effort’ that puts people off.

Taking the stairs is often quicker than waiting for an elevator for a couple of floors but it’s easier to stand around than climb steps.

I don’t really have a strong opinion as I’ve no plans to buy one but I do think they could’ve at least attempted an interface that doesn’t require a screwdriver. Maybe a wing-nut or something.

Nuts and bolts aren’t really designed to be removed and replaced over and over and there’s a risk of cross-threading both bolt and collar if if it’s being removed and replaced regularly.

The idea is good, the execution just feels a bit lacklustre to me.

MWJB

LMSC Those Kruve shots look like nonsense from the ‘unblinking one’, that must be obvious?

LMSC

MWJB Sorry, could you explain?

My doubts about Kruve were:

Why he was sifting for 1 min? Isn’t 2 min standard?
Why 600 and 250? Iirc, if I want to follow kruve’s recommendation, shouldn’t they be 400/800?

Cuprajake

Come again

MWJB

LMSC There is almost nothing in the pan with the ‘filter burr’ sample. This just doesn’t happen when sifting filter grinds. 250 & 600 isn’t a suitable interval for any kind of test, it’s too small for filter and too close an interval, sifting espresso is a bad idea. 2 min is what I and others with repeatable, comparable figures have done, 5 min would be better if RSI is not a concern for you 😀

Kruve’s recommendations on sieve intervals should be ignored (unless at the very coarse end like 700/800 to 1600). They made the device (which I love), but didn’t do any homework. Usually a x2 interval at the finer end won’t trap more than 30% between the sieves which is not informative. As you go finer on the smaller sieve after 400, the ratio of weight passing through drops and stdevs get very much larger, so you have to have a lot of data (none presented here) to makes sense of what is ‘normal’.

LMSC

MWJB You don’t sift for espresso, do you? Has some one ever sifted for espresso?

MWJB

LMSC It doesn’t really work, many have tried, the grinds don’t pass as cleanly through the sieves. Even with filter/finer filter grinds the smallest sieve sizes (350, 300) start to distort the measurements. People have sifted down to 250um with ASTM/Tyler sieves, but these don’t correspond directly to Kruve sizes. “Fines” assessment isn’t really possible.

If Sprometheus’ sift suggests anything, it is that, at 18 you get 2 different grind sizes with the burr swap.

LMSC

Ernie1 I think this is reflective of human nature

It is indeed. That’s why we are fuzzy technology has spoiled us. I see a dramatic shift in our approach to anything in recent years.

Ernie1 Maybe a wing-nut or something.

It’s something that can still be achieved as a mod by them, IMO.

whinmoor85

dfk41 I would have been more impressed if he had read the manual which tells you under no circumstances do you spray the beans with water, yet he recommends this.

He also knocked the grinder up and down to release retained grinds - but really what’s the point? That’s 0.2 or 0.3g, can anyone taste that?

Static in the cup? Give a quick knock if it’s really a problem. Talk about being tedious 🤦‍♂️

dfk41

LMSC Having changed burrs dozens of times, I see no problem with the current arrangement. The screw driver as such, is more of a hex key. I think it has slipped out of the bolt once when I was trying to use my left hand and film with the right

DavecUK

LMSC It’s something that can still be achieved as a mod by them, IMO.

No it can’t…it has to be a screw…..it runs in a bearing at the top, you can’t have a wing nut or anything that interferes with that. The two burrs form a type of conjoined self aligned unit as they are brought close together.

LMSC

DavecUK dfk41

I was thinking a what if scenario where everything remains the same except the bolt head is potentially replaced by a stainless steel knob - something like in this link. It needs to be custom made, given the alignment considerations.

https://www.tcfixings.co.uk/category/thumbscrews-and-wing-bolts/931

I wouldn’t be concerned about losing the thread or damaging it, however.

Edit:

I do plan to swap the burrs for my daily filter, though :-)

Cuprajake

I’m really thinning up top 🤣😭

DavecUK

Cuprajake they say hair doesn’t grow on a busy patch…ur thinking too much.

Cuprajake

In that case I should look like this

Giphy - charles xavier not today GIF

Cuprajake

So I was just looking through the recent spro vid comments and I saw this

So I thought I’d take a peak,

Then you add on UK import that brings it out to about £1700 landed, so nearly double.

Now I’m not trying to be funny about this, I know the USA lot have said the duo can land about $1400 but what is the import charges in the usr a p64.

I’m all for comparison of products but it has to be a fair comparison in my eyes

Hoon was comparing it to a ek43 for filter those are $3500.

I get not everyone will like it, but for it’s price point Its a cheap grinder. I only hope all the new coming bigger burr grinders get the same treatment…..

DavecUK

Cuprajake I get not everyone will like it, but for it’s price point Its a cheap grinder. I only hope all the new coming bigger burr grinders get the same treatment…..

Well it seems like that’s not happening for some reason?

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