Cuprajake I get not everyone will like it, but for it’s price point Its a cheap grinder. I only hope all the new coming bigger burr grinders get the same treatment…..

Well it seems like that’s not happening for some reason?

Contact me

    I can understand the comment “it’s no P64” in that a lot of P64 owners consider their grinder to be one of the best designed and engineered grinders available.

    And I’d accept that comment readily if it was made in comparision to the DF64 but I think a lot of people undervalue the durability of the Niche Zero for example, simply because it is relatively light.

    At 7.8kg for the P64 versus the 5kg for the Duo, owners could be forgiven for thinking that the P64 is made from higher quality materials.

    I’m not saying it is or it isn’t. That’s above my pay grade.

    The P64 is around 50% more than the Duo landed here in Australia. I’d have thought that’s about right.

    No way comparing the two until they are side by side on a bench but with burr swapability on both grinders it would be hard to me to imagine that the espresso in the cup would be better from one than the other.

      tompoland No way comparing the two until they are side by side on a bench but with burr swapability on both grinders it would be hard to me to imagine that the espresso in the cup would be better from one than the other.

      I think other factors affecting the taste come into play….expectation, money spent, quality perception. If I take the P100 as an example. Looking at it dispassionately I could sum it up (in my personal opinion of course).

      • It does not look nice, it’s like 2 big round tins stacked on top of one another, one slightly offset. There is no design aesthetic at all.
      • It’s really heavy, so there is a perception of quality, really though it’s just big hunks of metal…in fact it really weighs too much and you worry about damaging the counter when placing it as there are not feet as such and the hard (and relatively sharp) edge touches the countertop first
      • at 50% of it’s max RPM the motor actually sounds a bit struggly, which surprised me greatly. I am going to try some green beans in it, when I get round to it (it’s not mine so I don’t want to break it).
      • The chute clicker has to be operated 4 to 5 times to be absolutely sure you have all the trapped coffee out (especially when grinding finer.) Not using it, isn’t an option, it has to be used.
      • The grind cup can be a bit of a PITA, but I suspect I would get used to it.
      • The (catcher) base to catch coffee is an afterthought…really poorly executed…a half disk of flat metal with some pins to magnetically attach. Because the grinder has no feet really, it has to be tipped back to slid the “catcher into place”, that hard edge digs into the counter again (and the grinder is around 14kg.
      • It’s a tad messy, because the grind cup actually creates mess when it’s put down on the base or back in the forks after grinding
      • The grind setting indicator disk is a bit of a joke on such an expensive grinder and is quite a poor design and execution

      These are negative points I found which you will never read about…..The grinder is expensive and I feel could have been better designed. I personally don’t find it pleasant to use. of course there are good things about it too…but it’s a £2840 shipped to the UK grinder. I honestly think if you paid that much for one, you might be a little disappointed. It isn’t going to rock your coffee world. In fact in a blind taste testing you may well choose other grinders as better!

      Not having tried a Monolith, I suspect that the Flat Max would be a much better choice of grinder. In fact the probable worst choice of grinder to ever make I believe is the EG1 (which I have also used), I think deep down you would have to be very disappointed and it’s (again IMO) not as good as the P100 and probably the Monolith flat Max. You would have spend a lot of money for a grinder with a subpar workflow and where you won’t taste that 5K or whatever it costs.

      OK It’s my viewpoint and I know influencers gush about these grinders…..so take no notice of me.

      Contact me

          It’s interesting from a comparison point of view but some people think a zero is expensive so it’s all relative

          I’ve always found going bigger has been better, from my upgrade path, but the 64mm SSP and multiple different burrs were not out then.

          Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

          The market is roughly split into three sections:

          Those who own one

          Those who aspire to one

          Those who just enjoy trolling

          You rarely ever meet an owner who is willing to call out his kit on a forum. It makes it much harder to sell. Perception is key after all. I owned one of the first batch of HG One grinders. From the first shot I pulled, I hated every single aspect of it and could not wait to move it on. Now, am I right or wrong? Some people will have vehemently disagreed with me, the odd person might have agreed. My beef was probably to do with hand grinders in general although the early ones had issues like the burr adjustment seizing up. The last point is it really takes an engineer type person to do a review, and even then, an engineer who is not scared to heap praise or pass negative comment. Just a guess, but I would think there are an awful lot of owners of equipment who have bought due to the hype or enthusiasm of others…….then regretted it. My motto still is………do not be influenced

          https://www.suddencardiacarrestuk.org/2024/02/thank-goodness-for-madeira-cake/

          DavecUK I’d have to agree with every point you made. Not that thats unusual.

          To be fair, some of your points re the P100 have appeared on the CoffeeSnobs forum although yes, lots of rose-colored spectacles are still firmly in place. By contrast I’ve only heard good things about the P64 but I’ve never tried it.

          Re the EG-1, I sold mine after I experienced the Moca SD.

          Personally, I’ve never liked the styling of any of the Lagoms and a bit like the EK43, which I tried for a few months, I just don’t understand the hype around the P100, other than that price influences perception massively.

          Think I have scratched the itch for trying high priced grinders and the EG-1 (magnificent beast though it was) versus the Moca SD, made me understand that the in-the-cup experience has a lot more to do with the burr geometry and less to do with either the burr size or the price tag. To paraphrase James Carville: “It’s the burrs, stupid”.

          This was underlined by the remarkably competent Varia VS3 which comes in at less than one quarter of the Moca SD price (still my favourite), which in turn was less than half the price of the EG-1.

          Enter the DF64 and DF83 and a multlicity of burrs to compare.

              whinmoor85 two reasons.

              Mainly because I enjoyed the espresso from the Moca SD significantly more.

              Secondary reason was that the Moca takes up a lot less bench space.

              I really liked the design and build of the EG-1 but given the above, I couldn’t justify keeping it.

              Its all in my TLDR review of the Moca SD (see Knowledge Base).

                It was him and portafilter that I got mixed up last time,

                But like he says I think people get way to hung up on stuff that they shouldn’t

                Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                  Cuprajake I think people get way to hung up on stuff that they shouldn’t

                  methinks this is a universal affiliction.

                  quite a positive review from an engineering type. well worth a watch for anyone interested in the Duo.

                    Cuprajake Nice tear down and a good review, IMO. Great to see some one is looking at it seriously and objectively.

                    IIRC, the reviewer says completed “recommended…. configuration” for zeroing. We know it is the users’ choice, should they wish to.

                      dfk41 TWG is a small Youtube fish which I find odd considering his obvious knowledge and expertise.

                      This doesn’t surprise me.

                      I’m sure that if he make some sounds and said “What’s up everybody? TWG here. Man made Drum sounds, roll eyes, hide behind counter and then slowly emerge” sort of thing he would have another 500k subscribers. The majority of people want entertainment, critic and opinions rather than facts it seems these days.

                      A very informative video indeed, but no news really for the majority of the members here. Rather a confirmation of what we already know thanks to Dave and Jake.

                        From the teardown you can understand the noise it makes - big burrs which have upscaled the case with lots of extra space to act like a echo chamber. It does look very nicely built with sturdy components.

                        Sure it will do very well once they start shipping to real Customers. I wonder how many they have presold.

                        Cuprajake funny you say that because I remember both of them did video tear downs of the Niche Zero and had completely opposing opinions on it: TWG knew what he was talking about compared to Portakeeper who wrongly thought a bigger, metal motor automatically equals better 😆

                          I am really enjoying his videos at the moment. They’re useful, exploring things I don’t have the time or money to get into but can use to inform decisions potentially.

                          Given I was going to clean my zero this weekend anyway I might try the PTFE, so what it’s like.

                          Cuprajake

                          This is a great video - the grinder looks huge side by side to the Zero, lol. Still not sure I’d ever get over how it looks - especially when it’s bigger than the Zero.