Shipping July released today. it could of course be an April fools joke. Albeit a strange one… https://www.nichecoffee.co.uk/products/niche-duo?variant=43187239846019

@"Igm45"#p40972 Not an April fools joke….people have ordered.

Some time to launch! 😏 I see from the specs that it's physically bigger than the Zero….assuming this is - at least in part - to house a bigger motor for the flats?

I still believe it's April fool's, too good to be true….

@"[unknown]"#p41017 Have you seen he full manual you can download and read ?

@"MattH"#p41026 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0081/2076/2450/files/N685_INSTRUCTION_BOOK_ROW_83F_1_080323_WEB.pdf?v=1680015642

Two excellent videos from Jake. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKdyBJ7TkhU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C90i5RVoBpo

@"DavecUK"#p41257 There are a couple of others there now too. (why does the plug change colour 🤔???)

> @"Del_UK"#p41290 (why does the plug change colour 🤔???) Dunno? RH Lead swaps colour as well in the starting clip

Can I chuck my hat into the ring? Right, first off, this is not an engineering review. I was lucky enough to be asked by Niche back in October, to accept the latest version of the Niche Duo. I had to sign an NDA and that was that. A couple of days later, a package turned up and I thought, I recognise that. On inspecting the packaging, it is quite clearly designed with the Zero experience in mind. The packaging has instructions printed on it for starters. Once you open the outer box, there is a strap/handle to help you lift the inner box meaning that you do not have to tip it upside down to force it out! I received a gleaming white model that arrived with espresso burrs fitted to it. A quick glance through the comprehensive handbook to make sure that there was nothing I needed to be aware of, and coffee here we come! When I dial in a new grinder, I always pull the first shot at whatever it arrives set to and take my reference from there. The third shot was spot on. 16 gms on an espresso setting takes me 16 seconds. I did not suffer from any static, the grounds were nice and fluffy. I believe the burrs originate from Mazzer (both espresso and brewed). Eventually, I thought it was time to try swapping the burrs over. Again, no help from Niche. They selected me as tester for their idiots instructions, and I feel well qualified for that role. I have made a video that I will post and it took me 70 seconds or so to swap over. You raise the lid, unscrew the silver dial, remove the screw to tighten down the top burr set, then remove it. Push down on the bottom burr set and remove. The process is then repeated with the brewed burrs (these are a different colour, blue) in reverse of course. I am deliberately keeping this summary vague! I have no idea as to how they get a big flat to be retention free. Having swapped the burrs over many times, and since access allows with ease, whenever I clean it out the retention is minimal. If I remember I will weigh it at some point but as any Niche Zero owners knows, you learn to trust your machine and just accept the claims! https://youtu.be/63Iv5gUy1JQ https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqlKJZjg_ZPsfdrHkp5cDIoL_KjSXhE5E5st-00/?igshid=Mzc1MmZhNjY=

@"Del_UK"#p41290 because I have a white extension lead, which I took out of the vid 😂

Niche duo - 83mm flat

MediumRoastSteam

MattH - first time I ever come across this guy. Who has Niche sent grinders to?

Edit: music on the background… pulls a shot, vídeo is cut. (Who knows how long the shot took). Comes back, swirls the shot, looks down… sips it…. hmmmm…. That’s a really good shot of espresso.

I don’t think I can watch it until the end.

steve_07

MediumRoastSteam hes quite big on instagram, does a lot of coffee meme videos

whinmoor85

MediumRoastSteam I thought that same thing when he tried the pour over and said ’oh that’s reallly goood’ 😂
I take most reviews with a pinch of scepticism but considering he’s ‘contracted’ to make instructional videos for Niche I doubt he would be that critical of a free grinder.

MediumRoastSteam

steve_07 does a lot of coffee meme videos

Ah, ok, thanks. That says it all. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Cuprajake

He’s very polished he’s doing niche vids for user guide I believe.

What do people want to see in a review 😂 I literally have one sat here and no one asks any questions.

If the vid is polished then it’s a fake review, if it’s filmed on a potato like mine then it’s boring

The niche is a cheap way of getting a highly aligned big burr grinder with proven history.

If you like big flats you will like it, that simple.

The influencers will be around soon to either sing it’s praises or nail niche. Depends on what their motive is

But you need to take the grinder at price point and context

What are it’s competitors?

steve_07

Cuprajake I think the point is no one will ever be happy. Lance Hedrick gets slatted on here (from what I have read on various posts) and his videos are polished and knowledgeable. Whether we all agree of not is a different story. A YT video is just an opinion at the end of the day.

People want to see a review from someone who has purchased it and in time that will come. When someone is sent something to review regardless if they say in the video its not biased in my opinion there is an element of bias in there and thats fine. People come to their own conclusions like I have just done!

MWJB

Cuprajake Recent comments aren’t about the Niche grinders so much, more the optics of a review from a slick, polished, videographer/influencer (however slick, it doesn’t add credibility in my book, having looked through his YT content) who already advertises the Zero (but seemingly mostly uses a Fellow Ode in his brew guide videos).

I love my Zero, but this kind of flannel is a turn off.

FadedFrontiers

Cuprajake I have a question now the initial flurry has died down, have you done any side by side blind espresso taste tests with the Duo and your Major?

I’m genuinely interested in how much the Duo’s alignment, rpm and overall single dosing design impacts taste versus the Major.

Niche’s RRP is definitely competitive compared to other grinders of its type but a modded Major can be picked up for approx half to a quarter of its price second hand. If there’s no significant difference in taste between the two then the compact footprint, single dosing design and easy burr swap may not be worth the extra £££ to some.

tompoland

Cuprajake If the vid is polished then it’s a fake review, if it’s filmed on a potato like mine then it’s boring

100% agree, come on (some) people, many of these reviewers bust their xxxx putting this stuff out.

Feel free to have a crack yourself and post a review/video of your kit to try and help others. You will undoubtedley help other members and it may give you a greater appreciation for what goes into publishing a review.

Cuprajake

In the UK?

Df83 £699-799

Atom 75 899-999

Mocca sd £1299

Compak f8 £1974

Helios 80 £972

Ceado e37s £1700

Then there’s the import stuff lagom etc but there double, there are the new sculptor stuff but the kick starter price is unique.

I’ve always bout used as I don’t have the budget for new high end but even my major cost me a good chunk

MattH

MWJB I was just posting the link 😂

I learned nothing new from it - thats not been covered here.

Cuprajake

I get alot of it has to grab attention these days as the social media side is so quick to skip

Me personally I love the technology side and to learn, I wish more vids went into that sort of depth rather than mentioning and then glossing over it.

I’d have much more respect for these YouTube review types if they were written on a forum, as that’s not a gauenteed source of income that a click nature is, taking the time to visit forums speak with endusers etc.

Fwiw when mine goes back I will access my funds and if I can afford one I’ll buy a duo,

MediumRoastSteam

And no offence to anyone who got the Niche for testing and has a YT channel. I know @Cuprajake will just say it straight if you ask him. But presumably, as far as a test is concerned, and the fact some got selected for testing, will one of the testers ever say openly that, at the end of the day, the Niche Zero is just as good in the cup as the Duo, and that an upgrade is not worth the while for espresso only? Maybe, maybe not, and taste is subjective, to complicate things. And then there will be those who didn’t get the Duo for testing (e.g.: Lance Hedrick) who was never a fan of the Niche anyway, who most likely will not sing its praises, out of spite or just to carry on with his on personal view. Now, if he does like the grinder, then that would be an interesting take on his review whenever it comes.

And to Jake’s point above, I think we all know the grinder, in terms of functionality, the Niche Duo is ace, A*, whatever. It’s a Niche, unbeatable workflow, no RDT, no bellows. I can’t argue with that. I’ve seen it myself, I’ve used, I had coffee from it and it’s great in terms of usability and what it does.

For me at least, I would like to see how the Duo fares for espresso in terms of taste against the Niche Zero and the DF64V. But equally I think I’m beating a dead horse as the Duo is a new concept. Almost as trying to compare apples and pears: similar, but not quite.

To my tastebuds, for espresso - and that’s me personally - I was expecting the 83mm flat of the Niche to blow me away in comparison with the Zero. Granted I didn’t taste it side by side, but I tried a coffee on my Zero and then on the Duo with espresso burrs. It didn’t blow me away. Yes, there was a subtle difference, but it wasn’t a revelation moment. A difference not worthwhile £800 (or whatever the difference is if you sell your Zero). Maybe it’s just me.

Will I buy one? I think I might do, eventually. There’re a lot of grinders coming out there which are similar in price (I don’t care about 83mm burrs, I don’t care about the “duo” aspect. 64mm burrs is just fine for me, espresso only) so I want to wait and see. The Kopi Deva is an interesting one, made in the UK, Mazzer SJ burrs as stock.

Cuprajake

Bang on its all personal preference.

I’ve had the major for such a long time that when I got the niche along side it felt a bit meh for me, and as I always say it makes good coffee just not what the major does, if I could of found a kony I wouldn’t have a zero haha

The Hoffman end game grinder was good for this, as he did comment on the niche and how it’s very incremental in stepping up Vs the £££ spent.

Cuprajake

Yeah did that a while ago when I first got it.

I use the Mrs as a test subject to as her coffee preferences are different to mine. Milk drinker med beans but of the ‘normal’ nutty, choc flavours

A blind test with the duo Vs the niche in milk with two different beans and she picked out the duo everytime.

Blind testing Vs the major for me is harder and I’d say half the time I’d pick wrong

You get more of a sense when back to back tasting, blind is very difficult but side by side you can taste the differences easier and more notable.

I still love my major and I don’t mind work flow, the niche just presents it in a better package,

Not everyone can get away with the size, I did have to shim my major to get the results I got from the out the box duo

Used majors doserless are still £400-500

Cuprajake

Size comparison

dfk41

If you were a company that had had success without the help of Youtube influencers several years ago, and you had made a major investment into a new product, and you accept the market has moved on in to how you market things, and your firm does not have to take the Crowdfunding route…….would you want ‘home’ reviewers or people who only have an agenda to try and destroy something?

Sure, the video was polished, did not show anything from start to finish, including a shot being prepared, ground and pulled, but apart from our venerable hosts videos, who does? The important things for me, were no gremlins came out which matches my own experiences, the green bean grinding (sourced from our very own @Cuprajake) looked impressive, especially when a competitor was briefly shown failing. This puts to be the pretend worries of the doubters over motor and gearbox power. Other influencers will have their own take, but if I were Niche, I would be quite happy with that first review

FadedFrontiers

dfk41 I don’t quite follow, the majority of coffee influencers not only raved about the Niche Zero at the time but were all sent units. It was in the background of practically every major coffee YouTuber’s videos. One notable video a year later voicing some criticisms does not represent the majority of them and it’s not really evidence of an agenda either.

Ernie1

Seeing them side by side with the Major now I realise why I’m not a fan of the design. It looks like a Morphy Richards or Kenwood ‘appliance’ rather than a machine. Not necessarily a bad thing but I suppose in the same way a Sage Oracle and an ECM E61 look different.

At £800 I’d just like it to look more like a high end piece of equipment like other coffee gear at that price point. I think this is where things like the Timemore and Fellow do a good job. It’s an evolution of grinder design but has a refined look to it.

Cuprajake

Id love to see a breakdown of who bought the zero

Was it was nerds like us or more the normal Joe public John Lewis sage users.

Agree on the visual they are very food processor, looks have grown on me, but I prefer the majors looks.

MediumRoastSteam

Cuprajake - I was thinking the same. Was thinking of making a poll here to see how many of us pre-ordered.

Also, I noticed they are selling though retailers now? (At least in Oz)

https://alternativebrewing.com.au/products/niche-zero-grinder
https://alternativebrewing.com.au/products/niche-duo-coffee-grinder

Ernie1

Cuprajake Was it was nerds like us or more the normal Joe public John Lewis sage users.

Exactly this, I’d like to see this also.

If it’s the latter then I can understand the design direction somewhat. I mean Sage machines sell like hotcakes too. Although having said that, we’ve got a Kitchenaid that looks the same as it did 50 years ago. Le Creuset etc.

I think the price point thing carries through to other goods also, like a £30 mixer isn’t going to look like a Kitchenaid. £200 Dualit or Rowlett toaster looks nicer than a £15 Argos one. Not that I’d ever spend £200 on a toaster…

The thing is though it hasn’t stopped it becoming one of the most popular grinders ever, but I think the £800 grinder audience will be more discerning.

I’d be interested to see a poll on how many people bought a Zero regardless but weren’t fans of the design.

MediumRoastSteam

Ernie1 - I think he design makes sense. It’s just the same looks and principles of the Zero. It sold like hot cakes, it’s trialed and tested. Why change? So one would assume that the audience who would think of buying the Zero would also now consider the Duo. Or even those who have a Zero might consider upgrading to the Duo, or have it additionally. It will look like a straight replacement, or both will go well together. It makes total sense.

For Joe public, who goes to John Lewis and buys a coffee machine, it will be interesting. Take a look at the niche coffee website and tell me whether you, pretending, as a consumer who wouldn’t know much about coffee (let alone what a burr grinder is, needless to say conical vs flat burrs!) would comfortably be able to understand the advantages of one over the other, apart from one being capable of making “exceptional espresso” and “flawless filter”. The other making “excellent espresso and filter brewing”. They both make great coffee according to them. But one is 37% cheaper.

I am really looking forward to see how the sales will pan out. One of the reasons I’m hanging on.

The Zero sold like hot cakes because it was ground breaking. There was nothing like it, and the price was significantly lower than anything else that could be compared to it. In a way, it still is. The Duo is another revolutionary design. Nothing like it around. But it doesn’t come with a friendly price tag, and the audience has shifted somehow for anyone who just want to make a coffee (any kind of coffee, really) to a more selective and knowledgeable audience. One could not even say flat is better than conical… because some of us prefer conicals anyway, so it’s not necessarily an upgrade for the enthusiasts either.

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