Hi everyone ! I think i have an issue with my new ECM Puristika (it's my first time with E61) On a cold start, the machine goes up to 93 degrees pretty quickly (5 minutes i think i didn't timed). But sometimes (not every time) the whole group stay cold/lukewarm, even after 20-30 minutes of waiting. I move the lever up, either in the first position (which I think is sort of a pre-infusion) or in the second position to make a flush (less than 5 secondes) doing that causes the temperature to drop 10-15 degrees on the PID at once, and the group starts heating it up normally. Someone on Reddit (who have the same problem but more rarely) told me to remove the big o-ring around the reservoir top (he got an extra sheet in the packaging which said to remove the big o-ring, otherwise the machine doesn’t work). I did it but the problem is still persisting…

That’s a thermosyphon stall it seems? Used to happen to expobars. When you start a shot, do you always lift the lever all the way up, and also always pushes the lever all the way down to end a shot?

> @"Puristika"#p2282 Hi everyone ! I think i have an issue with my new ECM Puristika (it’s my first time with E61) The symptoms are classic for a **thermosyphon stall.** The brew system is sealed and heats the group by a continual flow of water. Water enters the group from high up in the boiler (or the top of the boiler. [upl-image-preview url=//i.imgur.com/P0NpiZJ.jpeg] In this photo of the prototype Puristika I got way back in Jan 2020 (almost 2 years ago, so it might be slightly different to yours inside), you can see the boiler with the thermosyphon pipes marked with **Red and Blue arrows**. The brew system is sealed and heats the group by a continual flow of water. Water enters the group from high up in the boiler (or the top of the boiler), **red arrows**. it then leaves the group by the smaller bottom pipe (**blue arrows**) and enters the bottom of the boiler to warm up again. This continual circulation is what heats the group and keeps it warm…if for any reason, air gets into the sealed brew system and collects in the top of the boiler, this **thermosyphon** will stall (stop) . As soon as you run the pump the air comes out of the group and the thermosyphon restarts. Symptoms are a cool group and if a shot is pulled without any portafilter in, a short delay (depending on how much ait gets in) before water starts flowing….the cool group with then suck heat away from the brew boiler as the thermosyphon flows and more water than you think comes into the boiler and depresses the brew temperature temporarily. You can confirm this easily (unless the air leak is really bad…). **When you start the machine in the morning….run the pump until you see water exit the group….then you will find it warms up properly** So you have had the background as to what and why….also how to confirm it…I guess the real question is; why is your machine doing it. * Leaky top E61 brew valve * Loose boiler connection leaking steam, or pipe from boiler leaking * Leaky expansion valve. the little knob thing you can twiddle (make sure the brew pressure is set 7 bar plus.), preferably 8 or 9 bar * Rotary pump machines have a 1 way valve and vibe pump machines usually rely on the vibe pump to prevent backflow. I am pretty sure they added a 1 way valve to puristika just in case (**green arrow**) These are the only places air can come in, and o course water out…find that leak and you fix your problem. **You next need to check with your retailer if they are happy for you to remove the case**….let it warm up, look and listen for any leaking/hissing, or if your portafilter basket is always damp. Take a photo and put it on here for us to have a look at. **Now this next bit is important:** There is no middle position for the lever that is meant to do anything, and you absolutely don't want to use it with a single boiler machine like Puristika. This type of machine has no way of knowing if water is low in the boiler, plus it introduces **air** in the system, that stuff we were talking about. If one day you forget and leave it in the so called preinfusion (middle position), you stand an excellent chance of a failed heating element on your return, if you are gone long enough….and don't for a second think the limit stats will always save the heating element….they most likely won't. This is because it's not water overtemperature, but the top of the heating element becoming exposed and going bang. I look forward to hearing the result of your investigations.

Thank you very much for the explanations, I will contact my retailer and see with them ! And i'll take a picture of my filter basket tomorrow morning.

@"Puristika"#p2408 Who is your retailer?

@"Puristika"#p2428 I've not heard of them, but hopefully you won't have any problem. ECM do support their dealers well if there are any issues.

Hi ! some pictures of my pf this morning after 30 min of heating. the group was cold once again [URL=https://i.imgur.com/yU2N1ne.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/yU2N1ne.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/tsy0ItH.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/tsy0ItH.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Then it's probably not leaking from the top group valve. Work through the things 1 step at the time, easiest step first and you will find the problem…but get your retailers blessing before you do!

@"Puristika"#p2510 - the photos show a PF without a basket. I take you leave the PF with a basket in the machine to warm up? And if you did, was the basket damp?

ECM Puristika heating issue ?

ECMP

One last question! Would it be bad for the machine if, being completely off, it opens and closes the pressure switch completely several times to see if the spring with the movement is positioned by itself?

DavecUK

ECMP One last question! Would it be bad for the machine if, being completely off, it opens and closes the pressure switch completely several times to see if the spring with the movement is positioned by itself?

you can try unscrewing and screwing in the knob, but I’m not sure it will fix anything. Removal of the insides allows you to check if there is any other problem, like a blockage or something, using a torch. At least if you remove it and put it back you will know it is in correctly.

Take photos so I can clearly see the valve and parts!!!

ECMP

“I noticed you posted the same question on CFUK, I would appreciate you don’t repost this stuff on there, or Verticalscope will try and claim ownership of my information. Which I wouldn’t want monetised by them.”

Ok. I will only focus on this forum !

ECMP

Ok. I will take pictures ! Thanks !

Puristika

MediumRoastSteam Hi ! This morning, no preheating problem. But we can see moisture at the bottom of my basket

My retailer is closed for holidays until January 3, I’ll keep you informed.

MediumRoastSteam

Puristika - @DavecUK ^^^^^^^^^

DavecUK

Puristika Tiny bit is normal after first warm up, it’s if it stays wet, then there might be an issue.

ECMP

On the third day I have also had the problem that the E61 group does not heat if you do not increase the pressure in the boiler by activating the pump.

Possible design error in the Puristika? If we compare the Classika and the Puristika (both almost identical in construction) we can see that in the Classika the water return pipe from the pressure switch to the tank cannot contain air at any time. However, in the Puristika the return tube may absorb a small amount of air. This air could enter the circuit in a minimal amount when the pressure switch operates and once the machine is turned off and the boiler pressure has dropped due to the drop in temperature from 90 degrees to 20 degrees, the small amount of air could enter the boiler . Subsequently, this air would be installed in the copper inlet elbow of the E61 group and would in some case prevent the circulation of the thermosyphon.

On the other hand, I know that the amount of air that would enter the circuit is very low and is prevented by the copper elbow higher than the pressure switch but … I refuse to think that such a simple system fails in all machines. of which I am aware.

I hope you understand my theory. My English is very basic (I am Spanish).

DavecUK

ECMP Possible design error in the Puristika?

I don’t think so, have you checked inside the machine yet?

ECMP

I haven’t been able to do it yet. My salesperson has asked me to wait until January 10 for his technical service to return on vacation and assess the problem … 🙁

So I will wait until the answer so as not to invalidate the guarantee. 😐

When I open the machine, I will thoroughly check it looking for a pressure leak.

Thanks for your opinion !

Beverast

Unfortunate that you are also having issues with your new Puristika. I have not had any issues with the group head heating up (takes about 45 minutes for everything to be hot) but issues with the brew lever disengaging from the pressure switch causing the pump to either switch off or the shot timer to change to the default temperature reading or both - the retailer I bought it from will be sending out a replacement soon.

All I can say is work with your retailer and if the issue is not fixed request a replacement.

ECMP

Beverast My group lever, pump trigger and timer are working properly. In your case it seems that the only problem you have is in the pump switch, once it is changed to be as easy as pie🙂. However, sometimes finding an air leak is not easy 😬.

Well … Let’s be positive, since a good understanding of the operation of the machine will help us in the future to better maintain it. Best of luck with the replacement!

ECMP

Hi again, everybody ! Waiting for my salesperson to authorize me to open the machine to try to solve the problem with the pressure … my machine makes this noise at the start of the boiler until it reaches 85 degrees Celsius (attached YouTube video: Noise starts at 10 seconds and It looks like a bubbling. I have not had this type of noise in previous machines … Is this noise normal?

Thank you very much to all for your comments.

Beverast

ECMP Sounds pretty much exactly how my Puristika sounds when it heats up.

DavecUK

ECMP I agree, mine sounds the same as well

AlfredB

ECMP

Hi, I was trying to listen to your recording of the Puristika start up sound, but the video is private. Is there a way for me to access it? I am really curious, as I think my start up boiler sounds loud.

Thank you : )

ECMP

Thank you very much for your comments DavecUK and BBeverast. Now I know that the noise is ok.

ECMP

It is done DavedUK ! Finally my seller has authorized me to open the machine. Pressure at 9 Bar. Just as you suggested, you just had to reposition the spring.

I have checked the boiler, tubes and others and have not seen any leaks. The outlet tube of the pressure switch had many air bubbles, so I think that the thermosiphon circulation failure (it has done it twice) could be due to air entering the boiler if the rubber ball of the pressure switch was not properly seated (although I am not sure).

My salesperson tells me that I activate the pump every time I turn on the machine but I think that is not the most correct solution (the thermosiphon should circulate without doing anything, right?

I’ll be watching it in the next few days.

Thank you very much for your help !

MediumRoastSteam

ECMP I think that is not the most correct solution (the thermosiphon should circulate without doing anything, right

Correct. A lot of us use a smart plug / timer to turn the machine on first thing in the morning or at set times. If one had to activate the pump every time before that, it would become highly inconvenient. The thermosyphon should not stall.

ECMP

MediumRoastSteam I understand!👍👍👍👍👍👍 Thank you

Srv-02

DavecUK

Hi Dave … I got the same problem as OP.

I read your thermosyphon stall explanation and it makes sense, that somewhere air is being introduced into the circle.
I modified my machine and added a pressure profile valve and a group head thermometer / pressure gauge.
From my understanding, it is possible that I didn’t seal them properly and air gets into the system. Is this assumption correct?

I can also take pictures from the inside of my machine if you want them for your archive or something. Just tell me what you need from which angle.

Best regards,
Mike

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