Hi all, I am new here and only recently purchased my first decent espresso machine. Dave's review really helped me choose the Elizabeth. Anyway all is well so far, except it seems that the Elizabeth brew temp which is set to 94C, spikes to 100-102C right after I flush the screen a bit for cleaning. I do this between shots (press 1&2 together) in order to flush the leftover coffee from the shower screen. The spike takes ages to settle back to 94C unless I flush more water from the hot water tap, it then drops to 80s and then stables back to 94C. Not a massive issue but then this machine is meant to be pretty temperature stable yet you cannot do back to back shots in the same temperature, unless I either don't flush left over coffee or I go through this long process of manual temperature adjustment. Is this normal or am I doing something wrong? Thanks!

@"erkal"#p46224 It's normal for a small boiler, even with very clever software. You introduce a lot of water rapidly when you flush compared to an espresso shot. If the service (steam boiler) is on this can be mitigated a little and if the flush is large. This influx of water chills the boiler down rapidly, especially in the region of the temperature sensor….this encourages the system to produce more heat than is really required. The water mixes and by the time it shows that high reading…it's too late and then starts the wait for it to cool down. The temperature effect on the espresso shot is much smaller than the swings seen on the display, as the group has a lot of thermal mass. The above explains the reason for the swings in temp. > Is this normal or am I doing something wrong? Yes, you don't need to be flushing the group between shots…just at the end of a series of shots, also the portafilter only needs brushing out with a dry 1 inch paintbrush after knocking it out…only washing it after the end of a series of shots.

@"DavecUK"#p46238 Hi, Thanks for the great information, this is a relief and makes much more sense. In this case the actual temp view seems to be a little misleading and not as useful while pulling shots. Since I have your attention I have another question. The pressure gauge sits between 10-11 while I pull shots. My timing and yield weight are roughly within the 30-35s and 1:2 ratio. I see people make adjustments to the pressure, I’m just wondering if the 10-11 bar reading is sufficient or do I have to make adjustments?

@"erkal"#p46246 - Mine was the same. After a couple of years I bothered to adjust the pressure to the more acceptable parameter of the proximities of 9bar. Get to know your machine and then worry about adjustments. It's a great little capable coffee machine. I had mine for 3 years and I look every now and then for something to replace it with within a reasonable price (below £2k). For my needs and considering its features. so far I've been struggling. If you haven't read this in-depth review and all the other addendums please do so, watch all the videos, and adjust the PID settings as per the ones recommended here: https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/2020/05/08/lelit-elizabeth/

Have you read Dave's sway document about Lelit Elizabeth?

Hi! That’s good to hear. I really wasn’t looking forward to opening up my week old machine lol. My shots are still a huge improvement from the previous second hand Sage I had anyway.

@"Inspector"#p46251 Yes, his review was what made up my mind when I was stuck between Elizabeth and Rancilio Pro. I copied all his settings as well. Bellabarista links his review at the product page, very clever :) Excellent review as well.

> @"erkal"#p46224 Anyway all is well so far, except it seems that the Elizabeth brew temp which is set to 94C, spikes to 100-102C right after I flush the screen a bit for cleaning > @"erkal"#p46254 I copied all his settings as well. Hm.... I don't remember noticing this with my machine. Are you sure you key'd in all the PID settings correctly? Could you please do a video just to make sure we are talking about the right thing? After a shot, and 20s so the shot time disappears from the display, I see the temperature goes down by 3 or 4 degrees, and quickly recover. How long are you flushing for? I usually flush for 1 or 2 seconds and wipe it clean.

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p46266 Hi, Yes I can make a video. I use the flush feature by pressing buttons 1&2 together, which is set to 6s flush, I believe, copied from Dave’s settings. The temp display setting also copied from him, shows the actual temp and not the set temp. I’m pretty sure I copied all settings from his review correctly but definitely can double check.

@"erkal"#p46268 - OK. I never flushed my machine for 6 seconds before :-) - I never saw the need for it. In any case, I'll do the same tomorrow and will let you know 👍

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p46272 That's a good point actually :) A couple of seconds of flushing should be enough to wash away the coffee I will try it that way as well.

Lelit Elizabeth temperature spike

MediumRoastSteam

erkal - Well…

erkal I believe, copied from Dave’s settings.

I think you haven’t copied the settings as suggested by @DavecUK :-)

See below, key in the correct values and we go from there :-) (e.g.: KPc should be 0.2, KIc should be 0.07)

https://sway.office.com/S5J4d9Jp4Y9LdVFx

Let me know if that fixes the issue :-)

erkal

MediumRoastSteam

Right! This is pretty perfect now, thank you so much for your help!

I don’t know why I didn’t think I could change the initial values, totally my stupidity, I have adhd and reading instructions doesn’t always lead me to the intended result :)

I pulled a shot and it dropped to about 88 and slowly creeped back up (about 30-40s) and its lingering around 93-94 now. Never went above the set value of 94. I guess this is what we wanted?

Now I just need to upgrade my grinder, get a bottomless portafilter and I will be rocking, get out the way James Hoffman!

MediumRoastSteam

erkal Good stuff. I’ve tried many different settings before, but just kept coming back to these ones. Give it a go, see how it works for you.

Enjoy the machine and have fun in choosing all the accessories!

erkal

MediumRoastSteam

Hello again,

So it seems I have a new problem now which I cannot decide whether if its the Elizabeth or my grinder. But it seems that when I pull back to back shots, the second one always seems to run faster.

I use my scales to measure the time/weight manually in the hopes that I can repeat it by setting one of the programmable buttons to the same time length, yet this hardly ever works.

For example, I have just measured a pretty decent tasting shot which took about 33s to yield 38g of espresso. I record 33s on button 2 and then set up a second shot, press button 2 and I get about 54g of espresso.

Where do you think the issue is?

Thanks!

PS. I have a Baratza Encore with the Virtuoso burrs which are relatively new (replaced them about 1.5 years ago)

MediumRoastSteam

erkal But it seems that when I pull back to back shots, the second one always seems to run faster.

Try flushing the machine for a couple of seconds - until water comes our of the group - before your shots. I found that for the first shot, it takes approx. 2 seconds for water to drip from the shower screen once the button is pressed. - Which could be leading to your slower first shot.

Saying that, I had a similar issue with my Profitec 700 back in the day. Annoying as it is for the perfectionist, I wouldn’t loose any sleep over it.

erkal

So how do you make consistent shots? Do you weigh every single time? About 10g extra water at similar timeframe is quite a big change in taste as well

MediumRoastSteam

erkal So how do you make consistent shots?

forget timed buttons. Weigh in, weigh out.

erkal

MediumRoastSteam

Ahh OK. That’s a shame as I chose this machine part for the timed buttons so the others in the house who don’t know much can easily pull programmed shots. Bit of a let down then :/

Anyway thanks again for the tips!

Cuprajake

you can work off time, but get better results weighing.

are the other users milk drinkers

erkal

Cuprajake Hey! No unfortunately not. They are Americano drinkers. I cannot believe that the whole programming feature of these machines is just a fake gimmick. Why even bother putting these features in if they cannot work with consistency

DavecUK

erkal Hey! No unfortunately not. They are Americano drinkers. I cannot believe that the whole programming feature of these machines is just a fake gimmick. Why even bother putting these features in if they cannot work with consistency

There are 3 other sources of inconsistency not being mentioned

grinder
puck prep and tamping
roasted bean quality/age

If you do everything the same and are consistent in the 3 things above, then the volumetrics on the buttons should be right be within a couple of seconds or so.

Cuprajake

i wouldnt worry too much bud, as long as you are there or there about’s you will be fine,

i have the grinder set for the mrs brew, she knows the dose so grinds and tamps, on the lever she moved the cup at 8bars, and on the bianca i tell her 30s she has milk in hers but she gets 16.5g in 30g ish out

erkal

Cuprajake Yeah true but then I just purchased this machine and now I’m thinking maybe Mara could’ve been just as good and cheaper too. Anyways life goes on!

MediumRoastSteam

erkal - Unless you have a fully controlled and stable environment, a grinder that is 100% consistent and a coffee that never ages.

So it’s said that, for consistency, it’s best to control the ratio of the beverage over a period of time, but just roughly. Of course you don’t want for your 18g in, 36g out to last 50s nor 20s. But something between 30s and 35s is acceptable.

Maybe a Sage/Breville Dual boiler would have been a better choice for you, as it has volumetric capabilities. Saying that, I have no idea how accurate that volumetric flow controller is.

Cuprajake

no, dual boilers much better - you did right

people just get ate up chasing perfection when theres so much variability in coffee

erkal

MediumRoastSteam

Yeah it was an option but coming from a very very old first gen Sage Barista, getting another Sage did not excite me at all. I have just ordered a more accurate scale so that I can do it your way.

Maybe a Sage/Breville Dual boiler would have been a better choice for you, as it has volumetric capabilities. Saying that, I have no idea how accurate that volumetric flow controller is.

erkal

DavecUK

Hi Dave!

I mentioned my grinder being a bit less than ideal for now. It’s a Baratza Encore with Virtuoso burrs. I find the lowest setting almost clogs it so I move between a few ticks up and down just above the lowest setting.

I grind 19g and I get about 18.7, I then dump it into the portafilter. I then use the Normcore tamper with the lightest spring, I think this should be kind of consistent. I don’t have a leveler nor wdt tool.

Beans are from local roasters, I presume they are OK.

I hope this would keep it somehow consistent but sometimes the second shot is clearly visibly way too runny.

Inspector

Keep an eye on pressure gauge also, readings must be different also between first and second shot. Pretty much we all had some sort of inconsistent pressure between first and second shots with Elizabeth.

I have sent the upgraded opv but i never installed it, what i do now i place blind filter and run pump up to 30 seconds when machine is warmed up, then wait 1min to get it up to temp again. This is how overcame this inconsistency problem.

DavecUK

Inspector Keep an eye on pressure gauge also, readings must be different also between first and second shot. Pretty much we all had some sort of inconsistent pressure between first and second shots with Elizabeth.

This was a jamming expansion valve in earlier models, this is a late model one isn’t it?

erkal

Inspector

The pressure gauge is almost always on 11. But I can definitely check again when I am doing back to back shots.

I am sorry I don’t know what an OPV is and I don’t know the year of the machine but it’s only a couple of weeks old, I bought it brand new from Bella Barista so I am hoping that it’s the latest one or I will be really annoyed LOL.

DavecUK

Is there a way to check the year?

Inspector

DavecUK Yes, jamming expansion valve i should have said. @erkal what is the production year of your Elizabeth’s?

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