Brewed coffee and caffeine

dfk41

Am I raving mad, or did I read somewhere that the same bean brewed hass less caffeine in it than made into espresso? Over the past few months my sleep patterns have become terrible so I switched over to decaf a couple of months ago. It has taken time to settle down but no more sleepless, restless nights. Now, it may well not be connected to caffeine at all so I am going to introduce 1 brewed cuppa a day with normal beans back into my life and see how I get on. The decaf beans I use for espresso are great but tasteless as V60. I know one or two folks like @LMSC drink decaf and half caffeine products so I would welcome any thoughts and suggestions

LMSC

dfk41 We drink decaf after 4 pm. We are enjoying the below from foundry. The highest scoring decaf so far.

https://foundrycoffeeroasters.com/collections/coffee-beans/products/jairo-arcila-decaf-colombia?variant=44622198079769

Please note it’s on the lighter side.

dfk41

LMSC I persevered with the bean suggested by LMSC. Initially after just a few days rest, I found 15gm in 250 mls of water insipid. I left it a further 3 weeks and by this time it had developed a taste of sorts, but try as I might, I could not get an enjoyable drink from it! I polished it off today in the Evo. As Americano it was slightly better though I could not associate the tasting notes with anything I experienced! Interesting to try though!

MediumRoastSteam

I think espresso has less caffeine than brewed due to less contact time at a similar water temperature.

Remember reading about it. Never measured, just regurgitating stale knowledge which might be right. Or not! 🤣🤣🤣🤣

MWJB

Shorter espresso shots have about ⅔ the caffeine of the same dose brewed, longer espresso shots have more than short ones (according to Hoffmann’s measurements with one bit of kit).

I don’t drink brewed full caf coffee after about 3-3;30.

Occasionally have a decaf brew in the evening.

I rarely consume more than 40g of caffeinated coffee dose per day. For a rule of thumb, a dose of Arabica is around 1% caffeine (according to several sources) when brewed, 0.6% as 1:2 espresso, so if people observe WHO recommendations that’s not a lot of coffee per day.

WHO recommendation - 300mg caffeine/30g dose brewed/51g dose espresso

FDA recommendation - 400mg caffeine/40g dose brewed/68g dose as espresso

dfk41

Well, here we are at 6 minutes past two and I am wide awake! I had one normal caffeinated V60 at 3 pm yesterday. Is it a coincidence or am I just unlucky!

MWJB

Coincidence? Maybe.

How much coffee did you use?

What was your method/grind?

Maybe better to stick to full caf earlier in the morning?

Or, try and find a decaf for brewed that you like more than the espresso roast, this is the last decaf I bought:

https://www.crankhousecoffee.co.uk/products/popayan-decaf

dfk41

MWJB It was a V60. 15gms/250 mls. It just seems too much of a coincidence after quite a few good nights sleep! I drank it at around 3.30 pm. Finding a good decaf for brewed is paramount. I have bought a bag from Foundry recommended by @LMSC and will also buy a bag of your suggested coffee Mark

dfk41

MWJB I left this to rest as well and it is now a month or so past roast date. Just had a V60. The total time was 3.45 and there was still a little water to drip through. Now, to my simle way of looking at things it had more taste but I could not identify it of course! I will have an Americano without milk and a couple of milk based drinks tomorrow and report back!

LMSC

@dfk41 : The foundry’s decaf requires a lot finer grind size than I have with other light / medium light bags. The espresso pour was still faster, but gave a lovely cup. You might want to try at 5 on your duo, assuming you usually dial >=6 and go from there.

MWJB

dfk41 I personally wouldn’t pull the brewer while there was water still in it. I’d use less water if you want it more intense, grind a bit finer to compensate & always let it drain out, for better consistency.

dfk41

MWJB In that case, that is exactly what I will do Mark! My brewed experience is somewhat patchy!

coffeelover

I’m going to have a look at the decaf route after 3-4 pm as having terrible night’s sleep as OP quoted. I also heard espresso was less caffeine, but will look into the decaf recommendations above. My only concern is the grinders loaded and didn’t want to empty that out every night to change to decaf.
Has anyone ordered decaf espresso ground instead of beans? Think I’ll get a small bag and try.
If that fails, I may look at a second grinder.

dfk41

coffeelover The trouble with buying ground coffee, is it starts to stale as soon as it is ground. It only stays in optimal condition for a couple of hours. You could seek a hand grinder which would be a cheaper option whilst you play around

JHCCoffee

I drink exclusively decaf and find that there are few roasters who know how to roast a decaf bean. Many under roast, because decaf beans (pursuant to an informed roaster I spoke with) look darker than they actually are (not sure if he meant initially look darker, or the outside surface layer initially turns darker). As a result many roasters slow and stop the roast too soon. Others burn decaf, as apparently some decaf beans (such as Brazil) are easy to burn. Many roast one decaf blend as an afterthought, without pursuing a high quality cup. I have not roasted coffee for a long time, so I do not have experienced information. All I know is that I have but a few roasters that I am happy with, and many rejects.

PartySausage

JHCCoffee I like many I guess switch between full fat & decaf at different times of they day & I’ve experienced different ends of the spectrum from very underdeveloped roasts to beans that would have been best used on the BBQ although I have had the odd banging one, but that roaster has since retired & sold the business
The last beans I had were on the underdeveloped side, which as a filter & flat white didn’t offer much at all, but I did manage to extract a bit of zing out of them as a straight espresso. Could Decaf wrt Espresso be considered a misnomer?🤔
I’ve just got a bag from Redemption Roasters to try, which I should be on to next week but I’d be interested to hear, which roasters you consider to offer the best of the decaf world?

JHCCoffee

PartySausage which roasters you consider to offer the best of the decaf world

PartySausage I’ve just got a bag from Redemption Roasters to try, which I should be on to next week but I’d be interested to hear, which roasters you consider to offer the best of the decaf world?

I’m from Toronto, Ontario, Canada. In my neck of the woods, Goldstar Coffee makes very good decaf. They combine their Columbian (⅓) and Kona (⅔) into a tasty medium (City) roast blend. Milano Coffee from Vancouver, British Columbia also roasts decent decaf, albeit its more of a City+ to Full City roast.

chlorox

I have read somewhere before that there is less caffeine with espresso vs brewed coffee. Looks like the true picture is more complicated…

https://www.consumerreports.org/health/coffee/is-there-more-caffeine-in-espresso-than-in-coffee-a4556213289/#:\~:text=Espresso%20typically%20has%2063%20mg,in%20every%20ounce%2C%20on%20average.

PartySausage

Oh Canada :-) Lovely country, lovely folk. Never been to the east coast only BC & Alberta in the 90’s & wasn’t much of a coffee drinker then. Sounds like I’m long overdue a trip

dfk41

@MWJB I did not get the chance yesterday to make a V60 but my morning americano made with just water certainly had a pleasant taste……………what of, I hear you ask………………..I have absolutely no idea! My mid morning milk based (I make espresso then steam milk………you can ask me for a latte or a cappuccino but you get the drink I make. I have no problem steaming milk so I suppose it is nearer to a cappuccino) I made in a smaller cup and again, very pleasant. The experiment continues

MWJB

dfk41 certainly had a pleasant taste……………what of, I hear you ask…

To be fair, I didn’t ask 😀

If a coffee has an identifiable note, that’s great…if it doesn’t and it’s still enjoyable, I’m just as happy.