https://youtu.be/dagxgOdRRLA great vid, pinched the link off hb

@"MWJB"#p47579 > @"MWJB"#p47579 **Water make up has no effect on coffee extraction, it can’t boost it or attenuate it.** It just affects the flavour, mainly reducing perceived acidity with higher alkalinity. Interested as I've read a lot of accounts that explicitly say the contrary, that water make up can improve coffee extraction [[1]](https://www.baristahustle.com/blog/water-hardness/) [[2]](https://web.archive.org/web/20170126081941/http://www.bath.ac.uk/news/2014/06/05/coffee-chemistry/) (while also affecting flavour) based on this paper [[3]](https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/jf501687c). Has this since been debunked or are you just using a different definition of extraction? > @"MWJB"#p47579 She made a different drink in Melbourne, this is obviously no bad thing, maybe helped it stand out? Agree with you on this but the completely different water make up is a major part for the reasons you cited - flavours or perceived flavours.

> @"Rob1"#p47593 Yes, debunked. It was never proven. Hendon and Colonna-Dashwood admit as much and intended to make it clear in the second edition of Water for coffee Do you have a link to any useful further reading about the topic? [A more recent and very dense piece](https://sca.coffee/sca-news/25/issue-18/amped-up-using-electricity-to-detect-and-quantify-molecules-in-brewed-coffee) by Hendon still seems to suggest water make up still likely impacts coffee extraction, alongside other factors.

My Full Recipe for the World's Brewers Cup 2022, But It Would Not Work For You

Cuprajake

great vid, pinched the link off hb

Ernie1

I don’t know anything about these contests but is the grinder choice optional or specified? That’s quite the badge of honour for a C40 if it’s world championship winning.

MWJB

Ernie1 Optional, I doubt there’s anything magic about the Commandante compared to equivalent grinders. I know of a guy who came 3rd in the Canadian national with a Porlex (not comparing grinder/grind quality, just illustrating courses for horses).

MWJB

There is no way the humidity affected the grind to the extent that it would normalize the brews between Singapore & Melbourne settings… the Melbourne cup was a lower extraction, for sure.

I don’t know why she keeps talking about coffee oil.

Well done to her though.

FadedFrontiers

MWJB There is no way the humidity affected the grind to the extent that it would normalize the brews between Singapore & Melbourne settings… the Melbourne cup was a lower extraction, for sure

Yeah it wasn’t just the humidity, Melbourne also had a lot harder water which I’m guessing was another reason for the choice of coarser grinds given how it generally extracts more, which combined with a shorter ratio may well have helped get them closer.

MWJB

FadedFrontiers Water make up has no effect on coffee extraction, it can’t boost it or attenuate it. It just affects the flavour, mainly reducing perceived acidity with higher alkalinity.

The difference in ratio is 4%, not significant, maybe worth +/-0.5% to 1% EY at the same grind setting, lost in the noise of the differing grind settings.

She made a different drink in Melbourne, this is obviously no bad thing, maybe helped it stand out?

FadedFrontiers

MWJB

MWJB Water make up has no effect on coffee extraction, it can’t boost it or attenuate it. It just affects the flavour, mainly reducing perceived acidity with higher alkalinity.

Interested as I’ve read a lot of accounts that explicitly say the contrary, that water make up can improve coffee extraction [1] [2] (while also affecting flavour) based on this paper [3]. Has this since been debunked or are you just using a different definition of extraction?

MWJB She made a different drink in Melbourne, this is obviously no bad thing, maybe helped it stand out?

Agree with you on this but the completely different water make up is a major part for the reasons you cited - flavours or perceived flavours.

Rob1

Yes, debunked. It was never proven. Hendon and Colonna-Dashwood admit as much and intended to make it clear in the second edition of Water for coffee which as far as I’m aware has never materialised.

FadedFrontiers

Rob1 Yes, debunked. It was never proven. Hendon and Colonna-Dashwood admit as much and intended to make it clear in the second edition of Water for coffee

Do you have a link to any useful further reading about the topic?

A more recent and very dense piece by Hendon still seems to suggest water make up still likely impacts coffee extraction, alongside other factors.

MWJB

FadedFrontiers I have tested it myself, also Chahan Yeretzian and his coffee science team at Zurich University have not found water to have an effect on extraction, Samo Smrke seem to have been the one to identify that adding the minerals after brewing with pure water has the same effect as brewing with a certain amount of minerals in the water.

Fast forward to 51:32…

DavecUK

I remember I was in Singapore many years ago and the championship winning barista (a girl) said she only drank coffee once or twice every few weeks….something wrong there??

Sham

DavecUK Well her job is probably a barista… Doesn’t really have to drink coffee, only make good coffee. She probably also doesn’t have time (same for me, these days I only make espresso rarely).

DavecUK

Sham I think it was more she didn’t like coffee!