I had long thought of, since getting the Evo, having a dedicated thread to share my coffee experience. The laziness got the better off me. I also didn’t have much recounting the journey stories like experienced folks like Dave, dfk41, Systemic, MRS, Jake and many more. Jake’s recording of his journey is beautiful. With the duo due to be delivered soon, it’s about time I take a leaf out of Jake’s and have a thread sharing the user experience of using the Duo the way it was originally meant to be and designed for. Swapping the burrs seem to be quick and easy. Can one really integrate it as a part of a daily routine? Or, would it become a faff over time - what ever may be the reason ? I make 3 espressos in the morning for 3 and at least a filter or two for self during the day. There may or may be any decaf espressos in the evening. I think users like self are perfect candidates for the duo. I have every intentions of swapping the burrs - there is no reason not to otherwise. It remains to be seen if I will enjoy using the dual burrs daily or get bored swapping daily after the honeymoon period - 3 months! I will post my views as I experience it. There will not be any reviews or comparisons for three reasons. 1) I can’t be asked, 2) Tom, I am sure, will do the honours as usual and 3) I can’t afford to buy :-) I do want to know how I will like the espresso (taste wise) from JX pro vs the duo. I mostly drink medium light / light. I take full 2 mins to grind 17g. One thing for sure is I won’t be missing the hand-grinding part! 😁 More later!

Shipping notification https://i.imgur.com/n3egQCZ.jpg

cant wait for you to get hands on, its about time they hit the hands of more real world users, im sure you will love the grinder, im finding 6 to be a good starting point with beans for espresso and then 30-40 range with filter, which i dont drink alot of tbh,

@"Cuprajake"#p48288 Great shout. I will start at those ranges Jake.

Thx to @"dfk41"#4, grabbed a few KGs of cheap beans from Amazon for £30 to season the burrs sets. Supposed to be light / medium roasts [URL=https://i.imgur.com/on0KllQ.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/on0KllQ.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

think i ran about 500g through, got bored and just used it lol

@"LMSC"#p48290 Would be terrible if you tried drinking it snd enjoyed it!

I think Niche suggest this, but if you can, once unboxed, leave it to come to room temp which takes an hour or so. If you touch it, it will be freezing cold which is just a by product of the delivery system……enjoy matey!

@"dfk41"#p48297 Yeah! I saw their video. Thx mate.

> @"LMSC"#p48286 Swapping the burrs seem to be quick and easy. Can one really integrate it as a part of a daily routine? Or, would it become a faff over time - what ever may be the reason ? You will find that while waiting for the kettle to boil, you can swap the burrs, why not to get extra good filter as opposed to just using the espresso burrs.

@"DavecUK"#p48306 Indeed. No point in getting the filter burrs set otherwise. Let’s see how it goes over time 🤞

Coffee with Duo

DavecUK

dndrich As a happy Zero owner, with the threads I found that the Moly 111 attracted the fines much to my surprise. It really seemed to make things worse. So I cleaned the threads really well, and now I just use food grade mineral oil like I use on my cutting board. The threads are smooth as silk.

To improve alignment the tolerances on the threads were tightened up quite a bit….plus the springs are quite strong so they can seem a little tighter. It’s a nice practice to push down on the centre cone when adjusting grind as it relieves a significant amount of spring tension.

dndrich

DavecUK you must mean for the duo? I have the zero

MediumRoastSteam

dndrich you must mean for the duo

Think he does. 👍

DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam I do indeed

LMSC

Day 31 - Filtered the same Crankhouse at 9%. Nice!

Considering the routine has set in during the last 1 month, I’ll come back with updates at the end of 2nd and 3rd months, unless required :-)

LMSC

My wife normally doesn’t have a strong taste preference for coffee and happily drinks Nescafé any day. However, she has been showing a strong preference for the coffee from Duo over the hand grinder during the last 2 months.

Between Americano and brew, her choice is clearly brew.

Today is the 3rd time she had indicated she would like a brew - V60 or short steep clever - over Americano in as many days, at least during working days, going forward.

We will go filter as a daily routine, especially during working days, for the next few weeks and see how we get on.

She also asked me if we really requires the lever! 😳😂

LMSC

2M since the Duo landed

Bottomline

Since the last post 12 days ago, we drank filter more often than the espresso!

Summary

All good; it is a massive convenience; I like the clarity and the separation of flavours; the burrs swap is a breeze; and, I love the Duo.

Don’t like

The pop-corning and the fines around the thread, which is still annoying. Food-safe silicone spray around the thread reduces the fines a little. I covered the grind chamber with a clean towel before using the silicone spray as I am not sure it would affect the crème.

Not ideal

I also think the un-configured filter burrs set is not ideal as far as I am concerned.

My chief concern

The risk of threads wearing out, as I swap burrs at a far greater frequency than others. Only time will tell.

What has changed in the 2nd month:

I am not swapping the burrs every day for a few reasons. 1) I do feel a bit lazy at times to change the burrs even if I wanted to have a filter coffee. It doesn’t mean I will switch the Evo on and wait for 15 mins. I end up having a glass of warm water or a cup of tea instead. 🤷🏼‍♂️ 2) My concern about the thread wearing out faster, however unfounded it might be, is partly responsible for this. 3) We love the espresso and the filter; the filter is excellent and we love the clarity and the flavour the filter provides at times over espresso. A very good example is the Crankhouse Nestor Lasso. It was pretty average, despite best efforts, as an espresso, whereas it stood out as a filter. 4) If I have swapped the burrs to filter, then it stays for a few days like this whole week. The Evo hasn’t been used since last Sunday evening. We are not missing the espresso yet as we continue to enjoy the filter from Duo. I think we will power up the Evo for this week end.

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC The pop-corning and the fines around the thread,

My two pence:

Pop corning: Same with the Niche Zero, it can be avoided by putting a lid on top of the hopper. No pop corning or mess.
Fines on the threads: I’ve had mine for a month now. The threads are as clean as a whistle. But then again, I don’t swap the burrs in and out. I use it as an espresso grinder.
I still don’t buy the “Duo” concept. Great grinder, but the concept is slightly flawed for those who drink both espresso and filter regularly, in my view at least. Perfectly fine for the odd filter (or espresso), but I think I would get tired of it if I had to do this more than once a week. Just trying to put the dial in the exact same position every day (it’s a lot more sensitive than the Zero) and most likely getting it not quite right would drive me insane. If I drank filter and espresso on a daily basis, I would invest in a filter capable grinder, even a hand grinder would do.

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam putting a lid on top of the hopper

I have done the same. Thx! :-)

MediumRoastSteam Fines on the threads:

Can’t do anything about it. Learning to ignore it 😁

MediumRoastSteam Great grinder, but the concept is slightly flawed for those who drink both espresso and filter regularly, in my view at least.

Can’t blame you for thinking like that. I had promised a fair / transparent view of my experience, which is clear from my second-month take on the Duo.

ST30B

LMSC
Currently saving for either Niche ATM.
The price points are really annoying (for me on a budget anyway, I get why they are priced that way)
Spend a bit more and you jump from 64mm conical to 83mm flats. Then 120 more for filter burrs (even if not into filter, the carriers can be used) I’m a flat white/cortado drinker but enjoy a medium roast with some complexity and or fruit.

tompoland

Would either of you @LMSC or @MediumRoastSteam consider a second Duo so you could have one dedicated to espresso and one for filter?

(I just assumed that it was called a Duo because we are all meant to buy two 😜)

LMSC

tompoland Would either of you @LMSC or @MediumRoastSteam consider a second Duo so you could have one dedicated to espresso and one for filter

No. I already have a manual grinder.

If I can afford to buy another grinder, I would get either a Zero or the Espresso burrs only Duo for my daughter. 😊

tompoland

LMSC No. I already have a manual grinder.

I’ve only dived into filter coffee recently but having now tried several hand grinders for filter I realize how easy it is to grind for filter and therefore how practical it would be to have an electric grinder dedicated to espresso and simply use a hand grinder for the filter side of things.

It’s such a doddle hand grinding for filter versus espresso, so I can see why you wouldn’t buy a second Duo for filter, if you wanted a second grinder.

LMSC

tompoland having now tried several hand grinders for filter I realize how easy it is to grind for filter and therefore how practical it would be to have an electric grinder dedicated to espresso and simply use a hand grinder for the filter side of things.

Fair point!

The hand grinder is great for filter. But, I like the brews from the Duo’s flat burrs over my hand grinder. Perhaps, it is just my taste! It’s all relative, is it not? 😊

tompoland

LMSC sure is. What is the hand grinder you are using?

I’m a fan of the Mazzer 151F in the Duo but also the 1zpresso K-Ultra.

LMSC

tompoland JX Pro. Quite good.

LMSC

Duo 3 M today

Summary:

The best purchase for convenience, simplicity and workflow after Osmio Zero.

Like

The coffee from filter; and, we prefer the clarify, the separation of flavours and the taste more from it than from the espresso burrs. The latter is great but filter just outperforms in terms of our preference.

Don’t like

The pop-corning : bottle cap is a saviour
The fines around the thread : food-safe silicone spray helps. The reduced swap frequency is a big plus.

Not ideal

I also think the un-configured filter burrs set is not ideal as far as I am concerned as the filter is our daily go to option.
Swapping the burrs daily the way I used to is not an option for us. Although it was very easy taking less than a minute, I couldn’t be bothered anymore.

What has changed ?

Filter as our daily driver during the last 6 weeks.

My chief concern

The risk of threads wearing out, given the previous frequency of swapping the burrs 2-3 times a day at least. This risk is almost negated as we no longer swap like the way we used.

Looking ahead:

Filter for week days and espressos for the week ends.

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC - in hindsight… you essentially have bought a very expensive filter grinder given your usage pattern - nothing wrong with that though. However…

In hindsight, would you have rather spent the £778.80 on two grinders? Or maybe bought a dedicated filter grinder such as the Wilfa Uniform (£259) or Fellow Ode (£159) and then kept your trusty hand grinder (or even a second hand Niche Zero for £400 or so) for your espresso machine given your weekend only usage?

I was - and still am - of the opinion the whole concept/idea of the Duo as intended by the manufacturer (espresso/filter grinder all in one) is flawed, despite how quickly the burrs can be swapped around, to the point I always said I’d buy the grinder if they sold it with only one of the burr sets. As soon as they did it, I bought one, with espresso burrs only. Quite a few people here were very critical of my views, but those were - and still are - my views. 👍

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam

Good and valid points! The transformation wasn’t expected, although Duo’s filter burrs was the chief reason.

I wanted to upgrade to an electric grinder with bigger burrs set. We know nothing can beat Niche for its simplicity, convenience and the workflow. So, even in hindsight, I would not have settled for anything else.

If Duo was flat wasn’t released, I would have simply waited. 😊

I wouldn’t say the concept is flawed, but I definitely appreciate and understand your take on this. :-)

I still think it is a novel idea but it is not convenient to swap daily for many, IMHO. People aren’t ready to embrace it yet. Some users may still be happily swapping daily. I am happy for them. But, it didn’t work for me.

Tbh, the medium-term / long-term risks of threads wearing did weigh heavily on my mind and will if I were to go back to the previous routine. I do think it partly influenced the switch, which has a happy ending. I am glad the switch worked well for us.

Edit:

I almost bought a used Major. I am glad the purchase didn’t materialise. 😁

dfk41

MediumRoastSteam Can you suggest two separate grinders of comparable status that you can buy for around the same price as the Duo with 2 burr sets? I cannot yet hope that you can. The question of whether the Duo should always have been offered with one or two burr sets is irrelevant as it is purely marketing and detracts nothing away from the grinder itself. I still like the idea that I have a top notch grinder at both filter and espresso using an industry recognised burr set. I like the fact I do not have to have two separate grinders to cover the style of coffee I want, thus helping with bench space……..but, each to his own

tompoland

MediumRoastSteam the whole concept/idea of the Duo as intended by the manufacturer (espresso/filter grinder all in one) is flawed, despite how quickly the burrs can be swapped around

Most of the coffee world agrees with you.

LMSC would probably outlast everyone with his persistence and if he has reached the point where the daily swap is no longer worth it then there is not much chance that the rest of us would persevere.

I’m still firmly of the opinion that there remains merit in the ease of swapping for something more like a month at a time. I’m in the fortunate position of having three burr carriers on standby fitted with Mazzer, SSP and Gorilla Gear variants which I can swap out when the mood for something new kicks in. To me, this is the ultimate in grinder decadence.

In choosing not to sell the carriers separately Niche are passing up the opportunity for consumers to capitalise on their genius design. Whilst the intent behind their design has not been valued by the market, the potential to still benefit from it remains, albiet somewhat frustrated by Niches reticence to endorse the use of burrs other than the 151B and 151F. Good burrs though they are (IMHO especially the 151F), there are many other burr sets (including other Mazzers) that offer the chance to experience very enjoyable variations of espresso flavor.

Hopefully someone will convince Martin to at least endorse the use of other Mazzer burrs. That would be a step in the right direction.

PS I also like the idea of two grinders per espresso machine. Its one of those concepts that’s most people regard as an unnecessary luxury until they try it, at which point they suddenly regard it as having always been an essential necessity 🙂. And the new DF64 Gen 2 makes this idea much more affordable.

MediumRoastSteam

dfk41 say replace a used Zero which is conical with a DF64 which is flat. That does not answer the question nor provide 2 grinders, hence my confusion

Jeess… how hard is it?

I first said:

MediumRoastSteam In hindsight, would you have rather spent the £778.80 on two grinders? Or maybe bought a dedicated filter grinder such as the Wilfa Uniform (£259) or Fellow Ode (£159) and then kept your trusty hand grinder (or even a second hand Niche Zero for £400 or so)

So: option 1: a used Niche Zero and a Wilfa Uniform. Option 2: A Used Niche Zero and a Fellow Ode.

Then You said in your comment:

dfk41 Can you suggest two separate grinders of comparable status that you can buy for around the same price as the Duo with 2 burr sets

Which I then said:

MediumRoastSteam All relative isn’t it? As above, I gave an example. Replace the used Zero with a DF64, or another, if you want flat

So, option 3 and 4, (exchange the Niche Zero from the example above with a DF64) would be a DF64 and a Wilfa Uniform or a DF64 and a Fellow Ode, respectively.

If this isn’t clear then I’m sorry but I can’t keep going on.

Enjoy the Duo, and let us know in a couple of months how it worked for you if you happen to swap the burrs daily so we can compare to LMSC’s experience, who kindly gave his truthful and honest feedback of his own experience with the grinder swapping burrs sometimes more than once a day for over a month.

MediumRoastSteam

dfk41 I like the fact I do not have to have two separate grinders to cover the style of coffee I want, thus helping with bench space……..but, each to his own

Not questioning this. If bench space is an issue, I see the points. But do you swap between filter and espresso daily? If you drink filter at the weekend and espresso during the week (or whatever) I get it. But swapping daily seems a bit too much - i found, for example, it’s hard to park the dial on the duo at the exact same spot for when the espresso was dialled in. It’s never perfect. But as you say, to each his own. Works for you, great. But I don’t think you use it as LMSC was using though. Last time you mentioned, you had a Zero on your bench - not the Duo.

dfk41 Can you suggest two separate grinders of comparable status that you can buy for around the same price as the Duo with 2 burr sets? I cannot yet hope that you can.

All relative isn’t it? As above, I gave an example. Replace the used Zero with a DF64, or another, if you want flat. Plenty of people out there who say it’s a great grinder in terms of quality in the cup.

Personally, as I said before, If I were to drink filter and espresso daily, two grinders would suit the workflow a lot better. IMO, at least. I don’t drink filter, so totally irrelevant for me anyway.

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