I had long thought of, since getting the Evo, having a dedicated thread to share my coffee experience. The laziness got the better off me. I also didn’t have much recounting the journey stories like experienced folks like Dave, dfk41, Systemic, MRS, Jake and many more. Jake’s recording of his journey is beautiful. With the duo due to be delivered soon, it’s about time I take a leaf out of Jake’s and have a thread sharing the user experience of using the Duo the way it was originally meant to be and designed for. Swapping the burrs seem to be quick and easy. Can one really integrate it as a part of a daily routine? Or, would it become a faff over time - what ever may be the reason ? I make 3 espressos in the morning for 3 and at least a filter or two for self during the day. There may or may be any decaf espressos in the evening. I think users like self are perfect candidates for the duo. I have every intentions of swapping the burrs - there is no reason not to otherwise. It remains to be seen if I will enjoy using the dual burrs daily or get bored swapping daily after the honeymoon period - 3 months! I will post my views as I experience it. There will not be any reviews or comparisons for three reasons. 1) I can’t be asked, 2) Tom, I am sure, will do the honours as usual and 3) I can’t afford to buy :-) I do want to know how I will like the espresso (taste wise) from JX pro vs the duo. I mostly drink medium light / light. I take full 2 mins to grind 17g. One thing for sure is I won’t be missing the hand-grinding part! 😁 More later!

Shipping notification https://i.imgur.com/n3egQCZ.jpg

cant wait for you to get hands on, its about time they hit the hands of more real world users, im sure you will love the grinder, im finding 6 to be a good starting point with beans for espresso and then 30-40 range with filter, which i dont drink alot of tbh,

@"Cuprajake"#p48288 Great shout. I will start at those ranges Jake.

Thx to @"dfk41"#4, grabbed a few KGs of cheap beans from Amazon for £30 to season the burrs sets. Supposed to be light / medium roasts [URL=https://i.imgur.com/on0KllQ.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/on0KllQ.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

think i ran about 500g through, got bored and just used it lol

@"LMSC"#p48290 Would be terrible if you tried drinking it snd enjoyed it!

I think Niche suggest this, but if you can, once unboxed, leave it to come to room temp which takes an hour or so. If you touch it, it will be freezing cold which is just a by product of the delivery system……enjoy matey!

@"dfk41"#p48297 Yeah! I saw their video. Thx mate.

> @"LMSC"#p48286 Swapping the burrs seem to be quick and easy. Can one really integrate it as a part of a daily routine? Or, would it become a faff over time - what ever may be the reason ? You will find that while waiting for the kettle to boil, you can swap the burrs, why not to get extra good filter as opposed to just using the espresso burrs.

@"DavecUK"#p48306 Indeed. No point in getting the filter burrs set otherwise. Let’s see how it goes over time 🤞

Coffee with Duo

LMSC

tompoland having now tried several hand grinders for filter I realize how easy it is to grind for filter and therefore how practical it would be to have an electric grinder dedicated to espresso and simply use a hand grinder for the filter side of things.

Fair point!

The hand grinder is great for filter. But, I like the brews from the Duo’s flat burrs over my hand grinder. Perhaps, it is just my taste! It’s all relative, is it not? 😊

tompoland

LMSC sure is. What is the hand grinder you are using?

I’m a fan of the Mazzer 151F in the Duo but also the 1zpresso K-Ultra.

LMSC

tompoland JX Pro. Quite good.

ST30B

LMSC
Currently saving for either Niche ATM.
The price points are really annoying (for me on a budget anyway, I get why they are priced that way)
Spend a bit more and you jump from 64mm conical to 83mm flats. Then 120 more for filter burrs (even if not into filter, the carriers can be used) I’m a flat white/cortado drinker but enjoy a medium roast with some complexity and or fruit.

LMSC

Duo 3 M today

Summary:

The best purchase for convenience, simplicity and workflow after Osmio Zero.

Like

The coffee from filter; and, we prefer the clarify, the separation of flavours and the taste more from it than from the espresso burrs. The latter is great but filter just outperforms in terms of our preference.

Don’t like

The pop-corning : bottle cap is a saviour
The fines around the thread : food-safe silicone spray helps. The reduced swap frequency is a big plus.

Not ideal

I also think the un-configured filter burrs set is not ideal as far as I am concerned as the filter is our daily go to option.
Swapping the burrs daily the way I used to is not an option for us. Although it was very easy taking less than a minute, I couldn’t be bothered anymore.

What has changed ?

Filter as our daily driver during the last 6 weeks.

My chief concern

The risk of threads wearing out, given the previous frequency of swapping the burrs 2-3 times a day at least. This risk is almost negated as we no longer swap like the way we used.

Looking ahead:

Filter for week days and espressos for the week ends.

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC - in hindsight… you essentially have bought a very expensive filter grinder given your usage pattern - nothing wrong with that though. However…

In hindsight, would you have rather spent the £778.80 on two grinders? Or maybe bought a dedicated filter grinder such as the Wilfa Uniform (£259) or Fellow Ode (£159) and then kept your trusty hand grinder (or even a second hand Niche Zero for £400 or so) for your espresso machine given your weekend only usage?

I was - and still am - of the opinion the whole concept/idea of the Duo as intended by the manufacturer (espresso/filter grinder all in one) is flawed, despite how quickly the burrs can be swapped around, to the point I always said I’d buy the grinder if they sold it with only one of the burr sets. As soon as they did it, I bought one, with espresso burrs only. Quite a few people here were very critical of my views, but those were - and still are - my views. 👍

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam

Good and valid points! The transformation wasn’t expected, although Duo’s filter burrs was the chief reason.

I wanted to upgrade to an electric grinder with bigger burrs set. We know nothing can beat Niche for its simplicity, convenience and the workflow. So, even in hindsight, I would not have settled for anything else.

If Duo was flat wasn’t released, I would have simply waited. 😊

I wouldn’t say the concept is flawed, but I definitely appreciate and understand your take on this. :-)

I still think it is a novel idea but it is not convenient to swap daily for many, IMHO. People aren’t ready to embrace it yet. Some users may still be happily swapping daily. I am happy for them. But, it didn’t work for me.

Tbh, the medium-term / long-term risks of threads wearing did weigh heavily on my mind and will if I were to go back to the previous routine. I do think it partly influenced the switch, which has a happy ending. I am glad the switch worked well for us.

Edit:

I almost bought a used Major. I am glad the purchase didn’t materialise. 😁

dfk41

MediumRoastSteam Can you suggest two separate grinders of comparable status that you can buy for around the same price as the Duo with 2 burr sets? I cannot yet hope that you can. The question of whether the Duo should always have been offered with one or two burr sets is irrelevant as it is purely marketing and detracts nothing away from the grinder itself. I still like the idea that I have a top notch grinder at both filter and espresso using an industry recognised burr set. I like the fact I do not have to have two separate grinders to cover the style of coffee I want, thus helping with bench space……..but, each to his own

tompoland

MediumRoastSteam the whole concept/idea of the Duo as intended by the manufacturer (espresso/filter grinder all in one) is flawed, despite how quickly the burrs can be swapped around

Most of the coffee world agrees with you.

LMSC would probably outlast everyone with his persistence and if he has reached the point where the daily swap is no longer worth it then there is not much chance that the rest of us would persevere.

I’m still firmly of the opinion that there remains merit in the ease of swapping for something more like a month at a time. I’m in the fortunate position of having three burr carriers on standby fitted with Mazzer, SSP and Gorilla Gear variants which I can swap out when the mood for something new kicks in. To me, this is the ultimate in grinder decadence.

In choosing not to sell the carriers separately Niche are passing up the opportunity for consumers to capitalise on their genius design. Whilst the intent behind their design has not been valued by the market, the potential to still benefit from it remains, albiet somewhat frustrated by Niches reticence to endorse the use of burrs other than the 151B and 151F. Good burrs though they are (IMHO especially the 151F), there are many other burr sets (including other Mazzers) that offer the chance to experience very enjoyable variations of espresso flavor.

Hopefully someone will convince Martin to at least endorse the use of other Mazzer burrs. That would be a step in the right direction.

PS I also like the idea of two grinders per espresso machine. Its one of those concepts that’s most people regard as an unnecessary luxury until they try it, at which point they suddenly regard it as having always been an essential necessity 🙂. And the new DF64 Gen 2 makes this idea much more affordable.

MediumRoastSteam

dfk41 say replace a used Zero which is conical with a DF64 which is flat. That does not answer the question nor provide 2 grinders, hence my confusion

Jeess… how hard is it?

I first said:

MediumRoastSteam In hindsight, would you have rather spent the £778.80 on two grinders? Or maybe bought a dedicated filter grinder such as the Wilfa Uniform (£259) or Fellow Ode (£159) and then kept your trusty hand grinder (or even a second hand Niche Zero for £400 or so)

So: option 1: a used Niche Zero and a Wilfa Uniform. Option 2: A Used Niche Zero and a Fellow Ode.

Then You said in your comment:

dfk41 Can you suggest two separate grinders of comparable status that you can buy for around the same price as the Duo with 2 burr sets

Which I then said:

MediumRoastSteam All relative isn’t it? As above, I gave an example. Replace the used Zero with a DF64, or another, if you want flat

So, option 3 and 4, (exchange the Niche Zero from the example above with a DF64) would be a DF64 and a Wilfa Uniform or a DF64 and a Fellow Ode, respectively.

If this isn’t clear then I’m sorry but I can’t keep going on.

Enjoy the Duo, and let us know in a couple of months how it worked for you if you happen to swap the burrs daily so we can compare to LMSC’s experience, who kindly gave his truthful and honest feedback of his own experience with the grinder swapping burrs sometimes more than once a day for over a month.

MediumRoastSteam

dfk41 I like the fact I do not have to have two separate grinders to cover the style of coffee I want, thus helping with bench space……..but, each to his own

Not questioning this. If bench space is an issue, I see the points. But do you swap between filter and espresso daily? If you drink filter at the weekend and espresso during the week (or whatever) I get it. But swapping daily seems a bit too much - i found, for example, it’s hard to park the dial on the duo at the exact same spot for when the espresso was dialled in. It’s never perfect. But as you say, to each his own. Works for you, great. But I don’t think you use it as LMSC was using though. Last time you mentioned, you had a Zero on your bench - not the Duo.

dfk41 Can you suggest two separate grinders of comparable status that you can buy for around the same price as the Duo with 2 burr sets? I cannot yet hope that you can.

All relative isn’t it? As above, I gave an example. Replace the used Zero with a DF64, or another, if you want flat. Plenty of people out there who say it’s a great grinder in terms of quality in the cup.

Personally, as I said before, If I were to drink filter and espresso daily, two grinders would suit the workflow a lot better. IMO, at least. I don’t drink filter, so totally irrelevant for me anyway.

dfk41

MediumRoastSteam Replace the used Zero with a DF64,

That is not like for like……conical versus flat

dfk41

MediumRoastSteam Replace the used Zero with a DF64, or another, if you want flat.

I invited you to quote two grinders to buy to replace the Duo. You say replace a used Zero which is conical with a DF64 which is flat. That does not answer the question nor provide 2 grinders, hence my confusion

MediumRoastSteam

dfk41 - 😊👍🍿

You seem to be missing the point. The whole debate was not about the Niche Duo being poor. Far from it! It’s a great grinder! It is about whether the concept of the same grinder and swapping burrs being used for filter and espresso on a daily basis works well. My opinion (and others) doesn’t think so, and you might want to disagree. If you are going to swap the burrs once every week, then there’s no issue! It was mainly whether the concept works our for those who drink filter and espresso daily. I even said that earlier!

MediumRoastSteam If bench space is an issue, I see the points. But do you swap between filter and espresso daily? If you drink filter at the weekend and espresso during the week (or whatever) I get it. But swapping daily seems a bit too much - i found, for example, it’s hard to park the dial on the duo at the exact same spot for when the espresso was dialled in. It’s never perfect. But as you say, to each his own.

Cuprajake

The burr choice isn’t just a costing thing though
The likes of SSP can’t supply the demand of a company the size of niche,

Yes I know that SSP supply other business
But research into how many models have been sold of the zero
If niche expect to sell half that number then they need a consistent supply of burr.

tompoland

Cuprajake Niche don’t have to supply the burrs. Just the carriers.

dfk41

tompoland Niche don’t have to supply the burrs. Just the carriers.

Perhaps Niche have enough money to keep their product pure. Perhaps they think that for the average coffee user it is as good as it gets. All this swopping burr stuff only suits a relatively small but vocal group of people. Because of this, folks think it is the new norm to spend X£00 on a grinder then immediately lose the warranty and spend perhaps half as much again on different burrs. And for the record, this is not aimed at you personally but you have to agree that if you look at the coffee market as a whole, only relatively few people are into this burr swap ideology

MediumRoastSteam

dfk41 - df64 is flat, and cost is similar as second hand niche zero.

So, to put simply: df64 = £450 (or whatever). Wilfa Uniform, £259. Total cost £709, cheaper than the duo with both burrs (£778.80) that was the example.

More to the point though, do you swap burrs daily with the Duo between filter and espresso?

tompoland

dfk41 only relatively few people are into this burr swap ideology

There is an old saying in marketing which is doubly apt here: “the smaller the niche, the bigger the market.”

David I would agree that it’s a small percentage, but it’s definitely a very large number .

Niche thought it was big enough to meet that need in a commercially profitable manner. So too do the likes of DF, Timemore, Lagom Option-O, Gevi and Zerno who have all designed grinders with that need catered for.

I agree that the motivation for Martin and James to include say other Mazzer burrs, would not be for profit but more about not wasting the potential of their design as well as giving their legions of fans the ability to more easily enjoy a diverse range of coffee experiences.

dfk41

MediumRoastSteam I said two equivalent grinders which to me, means 2 x flat or 2 x conical matey.

Afrer barracking from my wife, I put the Duo back on the bench with the Zero. I use the Zero for espresso and the Duo for brewed. This is because I have not remembered to ask one of my sons to get the Duo box down from on top of the wardrobes. My wife does not let me climb the steps as last time I did I fell off! I do have balance problems following my cardiac arrest but that is life. I know thaat defetas the purpose of the Duo but once I get the brewed burrs down, I will put the Zero away for a month and use the Duo exclusively by swopping burrs. I did a video of the burr swap, I think it took 47 seconds so to me, that is not in the slightest bit onerous

MediumRoastSteam

dfk41 - yeah. I’ve seen the swap. I don’t think that’s the issue, I really don’t. It’s the fact it has to be clean, and that’s not always easy to put it back on the last espresso setting - my experience at least, even not having the filter burrs.

dfk41 I said two equivalent grinders which to me, means 2 x flat or 2 x conical matey.

Either I’m missing something or you are… 😊

MediumRoastSteam So, to put simply: df64 = £450 (or whatever). Wilfa Uniform, £259. Total cost £709, cheaper than the duo with both burrs (£778.80) that was the example

Which one isn’t flat?

FadedFrontiers

dfk41 I invited you to quote two grinders to buy to replace the Duo. You say replace a used Zero which is conical with a DF64 which is flat. That does not answer the question nor provide 2 grinders, hence my confusion

MediumRoastSteam dfk41 - df64 is flat, and cost is similar as second hand niche zero.

So, to put simply: df64 = £450 (or whatever). Wilfa Uniform, £259. Total cost £709, cheaper than the duo with both burrs (£778.80) that was the example.

The Wilfa Uniform and Fellow Ode mentioned above are both flat burr grinders.

Cuprajake

I don’t swap regular,
And if I were to buy had it still have been the only option I would of and had the second burrs in a drawer
Now they supply with a single burr I’d of bought single burr.

How ever I feel it’s a shame the design wasn’t really welcomed and they had to move/change what they wanted to do

MediumRoastSteam

Cuprajake How ever I feel it’s a shame the design wasn’t really welcomed and they had to move/change what they wanted to do

Sorry I don’t understand. It’s not that the design wasn’t welcomed, it’s just the fact the market doesn’t behave in the way Niche wanted or thought they would behave. There are very rare exceptions where the public changes their habits because a manufacturer forced their customers down to a route. If there weren’t other filter grinders about and The Duo was the only way that customers could have a filter and an espresso at home, they would sell like hot cakes. But that wasn’t the case…

On the other end of the spectrum, the public wanted a single dose grinders. Many tried and failed, or were too expensive. Then Niche came up with the most amazing product, relatively affordable, which did exactly what the public wanted. It was called the Niche Zero. And on that… They nailed it.

dfk41

MediumRoastSteam Either I’m missing something or you are… 😊

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