This tease from https://www.option-o.com/hidden-shop/lagom-test [URL=https://i.imgur.com/NNERPTz.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/NNERPTz.jpg[/IMG][/URL] My guess: 120mm flat burr. If so, it's delightfully and scarily OTT, all at once.

@"tompoland"#p49325 Who knows! It may as well end up on your little coffee corner Tom! 😀

@"LMSC"#p49326 Never say never I guess. But whilst I'm OK chasing dimishining returns there comes a point where I need to draw the line. (OK OK OK ... before someone says it, yes, I probably crossed that line about 17 grinders ago.)

@"tompoland"#p49329 Already sold out, is it not? I wonder where is it priced?

> @"LMSC"#p49326 It may as well end up on your BIG coffee corner Tom! Fixed it for you!

@"tompoland"#p49325 my guess is a conical juicer :)

@"Inspector"#p49334 Flats are getting way too drawn out (a.k.a. BORING), so the conical approach would be plausible... having said that, I still think it'd be difficult to top the all-around performance of the 71mm Mazzer/Robur...

> @"JonWoo187"#p49339 Flats are getting way too drawn out (a.k.a. BORING), so the conical approach would be plausible Well, doesn't it all go round in circles after all.... Yesterday was conical, today is flat, tomorrow will be conical and the wheels of the bus go round and round. Even the lever reinvented themselves - I'm sure pump machines will be the bees knees a few years' time. :-)

Simply find it hilarious how so many are burr chasing for the claimed latest/greatest whatever... yes there will always be fads, but machines/grinders are like all things in life... there's only so much room for actual improvement and these days it's realistically measured in tenths of 1 percent, not much else. I'll gladly say the same with green production with the ooohs and ahhhs over geisha/gesha, anerobic, what have you... there will always be someone trying to reinvent the wheel, but most ends up in utter failure while the tried/true will be top dog. There's a sucker born every minute willing to blow money as fast as they can so to each their own, gives me something to laugh hysterically at.

@"JonWoo187"#p49341 - I think there's always room for technological improvement. Example, the Niche Zero was ground breaking as it was one of the first single dose, "zero retention" electric grinders at an affordable price. Before the Niche, it was Monolith or Versalab and I don't know what else only. But ultimately, the burrs shape (flat and conical) have been around for donkey's years. Manufacturers can use different geometry, different speed, different angles, all the nonsense, but ultimately it's the same old burr. Similar story goes for the E61 group, which (now) gets flow control, pressure gauge, temp. gauge.... And HX machines becoming more clever. But ultimately, it's still the same old E61 or even the same old LSM or Fiorenzato groups. Part of me wants to think that boilers, heat up times, temperature stability and heavy groups should be a thing of the past. Sometimes I find hard to believe that 60 years later - if not longer - we are still using the same old technology, with very little change. And that's one of the reasons I - even though I actually do not own one - like the Decent machine. No boilers, no crazy lump of metal group. Instead, technology for getting water mixed and delivered at the right temperature. The usual manufacturers (ECM, Lelit, La Marzocco, etc) all innovate based on relatively old technology. Presumably it's a less risky business model.

The Mother of All Grinders?

Inspector

MediumRoastSteam have a look at their thermojet, I havent made a coffee with one yet, but hopefully soon get my hands on a barista pro.

Edit: just realised Bambino also uses thermojet :)

tompoland

MediumRoastSteam And that’s one of the reasons I - even though I actually do not own one - like the Decent machine. No boilers, no crazy lump of metal group. Instead, technology for getting water mixed and delivered at the right temperature.

In terms of delivering water at a consistent and energy efficient temperature, the model of on-demand heating has to be one of the best options.

Chriss29

I’ve always been intrigued by the Ascaso thermoblock machines that heat around 100ml of water only. They heat up quick although I’m not sure the group is heated so the portafilter will probably take some time to heat unless you heat it manually.

In some ways I wish I got one rather than my BDB but there is a huge user base behind the BDB, which is what swung it in the end.

Systemic

tompoland My guess: 120mm flat burr.

Only grinder I can think of with 120mm burrs is the Compak R120 which even dwarfs Mahlkonig’s EK 43. But it doesn’t seem to have found favour in coffee shops in the way the EK has. Not sure why that is.

dfk41

Systemic There are a few industrial 120mm size machines (and larger again) but it is not a popular size.

https://www.shopcoffee.co.uk/product/machines/buy-coffee-grinders-online/mahlkonig-coffee-grinders-buy-coffee-grinders-online/mahlkonig-dk15-ls-industrial-grinder-silver/

tompoland

A member of the Australian Coffee Sobs forum has posted that an Option O customer service rep wrote in an email response that an announcement in the next few days.

Tjyven

Also the asian brand Molar have 120mm burrs made by SSP. https://en.molargrinder.com/

Cuprajake

MediumRoastSteam tomorrow will be hybrid

Conical onto flats.

Amberale

It is a tri-headed multi burr grinder with a conical inverted inside two others roughly equivalent to the Weber Moonraker.
Maybe…..

InfamousTuba

120mm grinders are fairly popular as bag grinders, things like the malkhonig vta6s and the ditting kr1203 are good for fast retail bag grinding. These grinders never seemed to take off compared to the ubiquitous ek43 which is found in almost every specialty cafe. The world barista championship pushed it to the forefront of the specialty world and it hasn’t really been displaced, bigger burrs might be better but they just didn’t get that boost in popularity.

Cuprajake

Don’t they need serious alignment out the box the ek? Or has that been changed now?

DavecUK

Cuprajake Don’t they need serious alignment out the box the ek? Or has that been changed now?

The EK43 is very crudely made with poor tolerances.

tompoland

Cuprajake its notourisly difficult to align. After all, it is a spice grinder. But when it IS aligned, the grinds are very uniform. In terms of factory alignment, Mahlkonig makes no secret of the fact that they don’t promote them as factory aligned.

Systemic

DavecUK The EK43 is very crudely made with poor tolerances.

EK43s were prone to run out - that said, I’ve measured this on five different EKs and not found run out to be problematic. Matt Perger has a video showing how the static burr can be shimmed to bring tolerances down and there are some German videos showing how the surface behind the static burr can be milled to sort run out.

And let it be known, Matt Perger was runner up in the WBC using a stock EK43 - his was probably not a rogue one😀

Run out problems are not, as far as I am aware, a problem with the EKs.

InfamousTuba

Yeah they still need some alignment but they don’t seem to be as bad out of the box, still lots of unit to unit variation. And things like the Titus burr carrier and alignment tool make things a lot easier. Also a lot of espresso machine engineers will do EK alignment as well

Ernie1

Is the EK as stellar for espresso as it gets the rep for being? I’ve heard mixed things.

Most shops I’ve seen with them use them for high-end SO pourovers and customer bag grinds but use E80 for their espresso options.

In fact I’m not sure I’ve ever seen an EK being used for espresso commercially.

Cuprajake

Yeah but the Titus stuff is mega money and imo you you should have to spend more to align a £2500 grinder 🤯

PortafilterProcrastinator

Cuprajake

Talking of Titus, isn’t he developing a roller mill grinder for home use?

Would be interesting to see some new technology coming out, even if I’ll never be able to afford it.

InfamousTuba

Cuprajake Yeah but the Titus stuff is mega money and imo you you should have to spend more to align a £2500 grinder 🤯

There aren’t that many other grinders that produce nice grinds with an output of 20g/s that can be abused in a shop for a years without breaking. The mazzer zm and ditting grinders still need alignment out of the box and boutique grinders like the kafatek flat max or the p100 can’t grind a 250g bag of coffee in a reasonable speed.

I’m still not the biggest fan of the EK, but it does serve a role in shops very well but for home use it is too much. And most shops are getting the grinder for a good bit cheaper than £2500 😉

DavecUK

PortafilterProcrastinator Talking of Titus, isn’t he developing a roller mill grinder for home use?

I thought about this years ago…..Should be possible to make a roller mill, but will it really be any good for espresso, or better than what we have?

Systemic

InfamousTuba I’m still not the biggest fan of the EK, but it does serve a role in shops very well but for home use it is too much. And most shops are getting the grinder for a good bit cheaper than £2500 😉

Hoffman made a very good point when he reviewed EKs regarding the price charged for the EKs to end user is not the price Mahlkonig get - there are dealers in between which is not the case with niche grinders like the Weber et al.

Systemic

Most shops with EKs use them for pour over - workflow for espresso makes it difficult during busy periods. When I got my first EK way back, ummed and arghed about choice of burr set - coffee or Turkish. Eventually went for coffee but nigh on impossible to grind fine enough for espresso with lighter roasts so got a set of Turkish - problem solved and still able to switch back and forth to pour over settings. Mahlkonig then quietly revised the burr geometry on the coffee burrs to make them more usable for espresso with lighter roasts. That said, you were still near zero setting.

tompoland

Systemic all valid points.

The other thing to consider is that the equipment that a world champ uses to get the best out of a coffee bean may not be the same as equipment that I can use to get the best out of a coffee bean.

In terms of performance, I’d probably get around the track faster at a F1 race in my Kia than I would a F1 car. Still a tad slower than Hamiliton though.

Regardless of how many world champs use a certain peice of kit, it’s not especially relevant if we can’t “drive” it the same way.

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