I am discussing with my wife getting an espresso machine. I plan to use it for espresso. She hates the taste of coffee, but she thought that she might be able to also enjoy it a little by using it at night for the occasional hot chocolate. By no means, does she believe it needs to do this. We generally do stove-top hot chocolate. However, I would like to consider what machine might do this best and perhaps use that as a means of narrowing my options. In my mind, the right machine would: 1. Heat the steam boiler quickly (no predicting when the chocolate craving occurs) 2. Not turn on the brew boiler (saving energy) 3. Be capable of making back-to-back drinks (say 3x 150 mL of milk, or 3 small cups worth) 4. Have a simple interface, as she won’t use it that often. It’s a somewhat silly exercise, as this shouldn’t and won’t explicitly drive my purchase, but I thought that I would ask the friendliest forum what machine (specific or category) was appropriate. Can dual boilers turn off the *Brew boiler* ? Is this a case when an SBDU might be the most convenient? I am ignoring my needs for the moment, I just want to get a handle on how easy it would be to make her happiest with a very expensive purchase. Thanks

I’m not aware that the brew boiler can be turned off in a dual boiler. There’s always the Nespresso type milk frother thingy, you normally get two frother things with it depending on how much froth is required.

@"Jcheney"#p3194 Sometimes it is better to beg forgiveness than to ask for permission! Can’t really comment on an espresso machine that would fit your needs but the ‘hotel chocolat velvetiser’ does a really good and really easy hot choc.

> @"Jcheney"#p3194 It’s a somewhat silly exercise, as this shouldn’t and won’t explicitly drive my purchase, but I thought that I would ask the friendliest forum what machine (specific or category) was appropriate. Can dual boilers turn off the Brew boiler ? Is this a case when an SBDU might be the most convenient? The Lelit Elizabeth can heat the steam boiler very rapidly because it's small, it will heat the brew boiler as well, but that's only 300ml so uses very little energy. It's got very good steaming and will make you nice silky milk drinks with no trouble. Hot chocolate with steamed milk is divine…. In the older days the Duetto MK1 II and 3 could run with the brew boiler disabled by pressing the left, or right hand button on the PID (I can't remember which at the moment) for 3 or 4 seconds. It was actually a standard programming for Gicar…so anyone with a Minima, give it a try.

@"Baldrick"#79 and @"Waitforme"#83 > There’s always the Nespresso type milk frother thingy... > Sometimes it is better to beg forgiveness than to ask for permission! Thanks Baldrick and WaitforMe. My wife won't be crushed if the espresso machine doesn't make hot chocolate. I just thought that I could consider it to help me better understand the landscape and capacity of what's out there. My needs are fairly sparse, so I thought that I could at least take her _want_ into consideration. @"DavecUK"#1 > The Lelit Elizabeth can heat the steam boiler very rapidly because it’s small, it will heat the brew boiler as well, but that’s only 300ml so uses very little energy. That's a good point for me to consider. I was thinking about boiler sizes (and heating power) for time, but not energy waste. Am I right that HX machines would be slow and inconvenient for this purpose? If so, I can live with that. I am thinking about the price range where High-end SBDU, Entry HX, and DB (Non-E61 & Vib. pump) all fall: \~£950\-£1150. Which means there are a lot of disparate options.

> @"Jcheney"#p3296 Am I right that HX machines would be slow and inconvenient for this purpose? If so, I can live with that. I am thinking about the price range where High-end SBDU, Entry HX, and DB (Non-E61 & Vib. pump) all fall: \~£950-£1150. Which means there are a lot of disparate options. Am HX machine uses approximately 110W - 120 per hour over the course of the day….it's always ready to make steam, as there is only one boiler. The disadvantages are flushing to cool the group before a shot and the extra heat inside the machine and with the water, which shortens the lifespan of components. e.g. a Vacuum breaker on a dual boiler. where the boiler is only switched on for steaming, it may last 7 years or more…on an HX machine 2-4 years before it starts to leak. So convenient in that steam is absolutely always available, but be mindful of the issues above. I end SBDU can be OK for some people…but if I did a lot of milk drinks (which I don't)….I wouldn't go down that route. I think all you can do is read reviews and watch videos…avoid anything done by the retailer as you will get incorrect information.

> @"Jcheney"#p3194 I am ignoring my needs for the moment, I just want to get a handle on how easy it would be to make her happiest with a very expensive purchase. I think you should still focus on what machine will best suit your needs as most espresso machines include a steam wand which can be used to steam milk for hot chocolate. Of course this is usually a manual process and requires some skill/technique to get the best results. I have an ACS Minima which has a 2.3L steam boiler. With such a large boiler it takes around 8-9 minutes to reach temperature. So it depends on how quickly you need access to steam from initial onset of craving 😄 I know that Quickmill DB machines allow you to independently toggle the brew and steam boiler. Not sure if they are available in the U.K. or where you are based. If you want something more automated a sage bambino plus will steam milk itself to a good standard and will be ready to steam in a few seconds from switching on the machine. Sage machines have reliability and repairability concerns though. @"DavecUK"#1 is it ok/safe to add chocolate to milk pitcher, melt, add milk and steam together? This will usually give the best result as the milk is fully incorporated with the chocolate.

I've started making hot chocolate using whatever decent chocolate I like to eat. I chop it fairly finely, add it to the milk jug, fill the jug with cold milk and steam as per normal. The chocolate melts as the milk warms and you get a lovely smooth drink. I would imagine any half decent espresso machine will do the job, I have a Gaggia Classic Pro and it will be hot enough to steam in a few minutes. You don't need to wait for the group/portafilter to heat up so it takes less time than to make an espresso.

> @"HVL87"#p3332 [@DavecUK](https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/u/DavecUK) is it ok/safe to add chocolate to milk pitcher, melt, add milk and steam together? This will usually give the best result as the milk is fully incorporated with the chocolate. If Hoffman is silly enough to try scrambling eggs, I'm sure you can do chocolate bits.

I only started steaming milk and chocolate together after I saw someone order a hot chocolate ahead of me at ManCoCo (great cafe/roasters in Manchester) and that's how they made it. I couldn't believe I hadn't thought/heard of it before as it's so simple.

I absolutely love hot chocolate made on an espresso machine, even if I only drank black coffee it would be worth having a steam boiler for the choc. (I drink coffee with or without milk, but if milk, then steamed/shot) You can grate choc into the jug and steam it with the milk just fine, but be sure to purge and wipe the wand well after. You can also use drinking chocolate powder the same way (mix powder with a little hot water and make a paste before you add cold milk to the jug) which is also better than stove top because of the silky texture, although a different taste to real melted chocolate. Some places (I'm recalling a post by Scotford who runs Federation) make a chocolate 'sauce' which they pour into the cup as if it were espresso and then pour the steamed milk on top so you get latte art. Everyone should have hot chocolate off an espresso machine at least once in their life.

Espresso machine considerations for making hot chocolate

Jcheney

Hotmetal

Just out of curiousity what kind of espresso machine do you use?

I was inspired by some of the comments and I read about the process of steaming using high-end SBDUs. I was surprised that there was still a fair bit of faff. I knew that you had to wait for the boiler to warm, but I didn’t realise there were multiple steps to manually drain the boiler to create room for steam. I thought that would be more automated. Live and learn…

I think a Lelit Elizabeth is probably in my future. Unless I fall in love with the looks of a MaraX. I wish the grouphead (and PID) of the Bezzera Duo made it into a cheaper machine.

HVL87

Looks interesting. I am going through a bag from Bare Bones Chocolate. It is definitely sweet, but a very nice flavour too.

Hotmetal

I have a Rocket R58 which is an E61 group dual boiler.

I haven’t heard about needing to drain the boiler of an SBDU to make space for steam, I never did that with my Gaggia Classic, although heaven knows that’s a weak steamer.

Elcarajillo

Hotmetal Quite the opposite with the G Classic, you needed to ensure the boiler was full before steaming. Different system.

Dusk

Hotmetal

What has made a world of difference for me with my Classic is to start steaming before the steam light comes on, when I used to wait for the light then I’d always get a dip in power half way through steaming as the boiler cooled then heated again. If you get the timing right then you steam and the light never comes on and it means the boiler continues to heat and the pressure holds steady.

Baldrick

Hotmetal weak? It’s like a dying man’s breath! Starting the steam wand before the light comes on helps but yeh I’m struggling a bit with it.
That being said I did make a hot chocolate with it last night. Melted the chocolate in a saucepan with as little milk as I could get away with then added it to my makeshift pitcher (a Pyrex jug) with the rest of the milk and steamed away! The results were delicious!

Baldrick

Dusk 😂 snap

Hotmetal

My GC had the Auber PID which managed shot and steam, so it was all sorted, no temp surfing or light watching. Even so, I confess it took me a while to adapt to the steam power of the R58 with 2-hole tip (which in the scheme of things is fairly moderate) compared with the 1-hole Silvia wand I had on the GC. The mods improved the Classic but can’t turn it into a vesuvius!

Rob1

I use the Minima to do it a lot. The boiler is huge and will do a lot of milk fairly quickly. In terms of energy consumption, it’s not the best because of the size of the boilers but you can turn the brew boiler off via the PID. It will do multiple drinks back to back.

As Dave says the Elizabeth probably ticks your boxes too.

HVL87

Rob1 but you can turn the brew boiler off via the PID

How do you that?

brabzzz

I make the kids hot chocolate ‘coffees’ with the steam wand as described above. Chop whatever choc i have into fragments, add to cold milk, steam aiming for max bubbles rather than micro foam, offload that into glass when it’s peak volume before its too hot, stir what’s left to melt and mix any last lumps and dump that into the glass too.

n8spresso

I make hot chocolate for the children quite a lot on the Elizabeth. I add three heaped teaspoons of sugar, three of plain cocoa powder to about 200ml of milk in a pitcher, stir to mix then top up to about 600ml of milk.

Rob1

HVL87

I think Dave said, you have to hold the buttons on the PID in some order. I don’t use the function but have in the past.

HVL87

Rob1

Missed that, I’ll give it a go. Thanks

DavecUK

HVL87 It might still work, with the machine already on, just press and hold the left hand PID bottom for 4 sec, or it might the right one

HVL87

DavecUK

As per your manual holding the right button on the PID switches the elements off, which I have done before. I always assumed both brew and service boiler elements will be turned off, or does it depend on the direction of the power switch (brew only or brew and steam)? I’ll try the left button in a moment.

HVL87

As far as I can tell, holding down the right button on the PID switches both boiler elements off, brew and steam.

DavecUK

HVL87 Might be worth waiting to check it’s not only the brew one…although you’re probably right. Make sure the switch is the in brew+steam boiler position, then give that button a smashlike for 4s

HVL87

DavecUK I did try that. The PID displays “OFF” and doesn’t toggle between temperatures. When I switch the elements back on after waiting a while (pressing the right button, not holding down), neither boiler temps have gone up. This was after warming them both slightly to ensure there was no issue with lag initially.

DavecUK

HVL87 Ah well, it was worth a try…Gicar always get rid of the good stuff, whilst leaving their little factory reset/advanced menu joke untouched.

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