I've just had one land on my bench and I'm impressed. I have had a couple of the DF64 originals and the Gen 2 is a world apart. I ground 2kg of the local supermarkets finest beans and barely paused other than to empty the catch container. Not only did the motor stay cool, the grinds themselves were barely warm. No chute blockages despite keeping the hopper topped up so a continous flow of beans was being ground. Other notable differences include the collar seeming to be made of steel versus the original aluminium thread which was easy to damage, super easy to thread the collar pretty much first time every time, no need to depress the collar when screwing it on, wave spring like the DF64V and current model DF83. Also of note was that it is much lower retention than the original, to the point where I don't think I'll need the bellows - early days but at this stage after 2kg of beans there was virtually no grinds left in the chamber other than the normal bits in the screw cavities and a vigorous use of the bellows dislodged perhaps 0.2 of a gram, virtually nothing. That beats the DF64V in terms of retention but as I say, I need to have it on my bench for a couple of months. Clever anti-popcorning device fits snugly thanks to the rubber gasket/ring around the outside. If you look at the pic of the seasoning it looks like a lot of static but compared to other grinders during seasing, there is much less static so the plasma generator thingy seems to work very well and the anti-clumper screen works extraordinarily well. The burrs are DF burrs and the same geometry at the DF DLC burrs in the DF64V but unlike the latter they are not DLC (diamond like coating) which won't make much difference to me but I'll eventually blind taste test to see if I can spot the difference but I suspect its unlikely. The size is the same as the original but instead of the vinyl wrap exterior the Gen 2 is powder coated. Bigger than the V of course, pic below shows it sitting inbetween a V and a Duo. Other pics show the burr, one side of the grind chamber after 2kg of beans, the wave spring, steel (my guess) thread inside the collar. If, as expected here in Australia, the Gen 2 is around the 1/3rd less than the V its going to present a dilemma for a lot of people between the V and the Gen 2. The V is slimmer of course and has variable RPM. Gen 2 appears to be a result of the manufacturer listening to feedback and acting on it. Plasma generator, steel collar, upgraded burr set (IMHO), less retention, powder coating, better anti-clumping. There will be a lot of Etsy 3D printing shops that will be disappointed at this grinder being pretty much a complete package. [URL=https://i.imgur.com/fclLwGX.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/fclLwGX.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/qQ6p0Hl.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/qQ6p0Hl.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/CYLHMEN.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/CYLHMEN.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/4vpGDzu.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/4vpGDzu.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/Fso41xy.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Fso41xy.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

@"tompoland"#p54001 This sounds promising, I've got one due to be delivered any day now.

First two pours today. The inbuilt plasma generator genuinely renders RDT a thing of the past with this grinder at least. It may well be one of the lowest retention grinders I've ever used but I'll have to do a few tests on it before I confirm that one. The adjustment I made for the second espresso resulted in a predictable change to the poor time, so that is very encouraging. Surprisingly, the espresso espresso flavour is distinctly different from the same burrs with the DLC coating. I prefer the latter, however, it's just a different style of espresso and still quite interesting, but perhaps a bit more traditional and in offensive, but it's still definitely has a bit of intensity or brightness to it.

Third shot with milk this time. Delish. More coffee flavor punching through than choc-like that the V gives. Not better or worse but as mentioned above I'm really surprised that the same geometry without the DLC coating yields a distinctively differerent flavor. The inbuilt plasma generator is amazing. Zero RDT, almost zero retention (with no use of bellows) and the grinds all sitting at the bottom of the cup with scarcely a one on the walls. I can see it becoming standard in prosumer grinders.

I have bought quite a few grinders from https://www.df64coffee.com (7 in total) and they have given me a discount code for use with my last order, future orders and to share. The code is tompolandcommunity and it should shave 10% off anything you order from that website. I am not receiving commision on sales. df64coffee is an outlet/supplier, not the manufacturer. I've also bought a DF grinder from a local retailer and I'll continue to do that where the price differential is within 15% or so of df64coffee but I'll keep ordering from the latter where the price differential is substantially more or when I simply can't get a certain grinder locally as was the case with the DF64V and DF64 Gen 2 where availability here in Australia was several months after availabity from df64coffee. DF grinders are normally aligned at the factory. If you buy one you'll likely see thin metal shims. However df64coffee also check for alignment of each grinder prior to shipping. Every grinder I've recieved from them has arrived perfectly aligned. I noticed that some grinders came with two sets of shims, one thicker than the other. When I inquired why, df64coffee replied that the thicker shims were the type that they used. Make of that what you will; that the factory alignment is sub-par or that the extra care taken by df64coffee is impressive, or indeed, both. I've seen posts on HB and CS from people asking if df64coffee are kosher because their pricing is generally very sharp but they don't want to take the risk of buying from an unknown supplier. I'm happy to report that I've had reliable support from df64coffee. If I email them, I receive an auto-response to say that I should expect a personalized response within 3 days and to date they have been true to that. So not lightning fast but dependable and helpful nonetheless.

@"tompoland"#p54181 Does this mean you've become…….. an influencer

Bella Barista now have a page up in anticipation of pre orders going live. I'm pulling the trigger as soon as they are available. Seems like a no brainer for the price, it can sit alongside my niche.

@"tompoland"#p54181 £515/$623 for a gen 2 DF64 with SSP MP burrs pre-aligned is very good price.

@"Dusk"#p54191 seems like I'm slowly sliding down that slippery slope. I am going to start a website and YT channel with grinder/burr reviews and compisions Q1 next year. I play around a lot with grinders/burrs and now that I'm semi-retired I want to do a series of blind taste tests between all of the 64mm and 83mm flat burrs that I have (27 and counting). So I may as well publish the results in case that is helpful in this new dawn of prosumer burr-swapping single-dosing grinders. Writing reviews, recording videos and publishing is a pain in the butt, however it provides me with the incentive and discipline to do the work in a relatively robust manner due to the thought that some may spend their hard earned based on a review and that thought has me more mindful of doing a thorough job of the review, (definitely still a work in progress for me). Some will doubtless see this as me going to the dark side, others will gain value. The knockers will knock of course but having been a relatively public figure in business over 40 years I've plenty of practice in studiously ignoring the habitually negative.

@"whinmoor85"#p54206 I suspect that DF will sell truckloads of Gen 2 at that price. I have the original DF64, the DF64V and the DF64 Gen 2 on my bench and the latter really is a grinder that I could recommend as being exceptional value for money. I could not put hand on heart and make that recommendation for the original DF64 or for the current DF83. (**I strongly suspect that the DF83 Gen 2 will be available around the end of this year or early 2024** and if DF do to the 83 what they did to the 64 (either model) it will likely be an impressive upgrade).

@"tompoland"#p54214 thanks for the code. really tempting - what do you prefer, DF64 gen 2, or DF83 v2?

DF64 Gen 2

Dusk

tompoland

I’m just using the standard burrs, I only really drink milk based drinks so I’m not sure I’d notice any subtle differences.

But then again I am keen to see if there’s any difference between my Knock Aergrind and the DF64, maybe it is a slippery slope….

Redla

Pulled the trigger on a pre order through Bella Barista. What burrs are people looking to use? I’m eyeing up the SSP HU or MP.

tompoland

Redla what’s your preferred espresso and roast depth?

SSP HU are my favourite for light roast espresso. The DF DLC burrs are tops for milk based (stock burrs also good) . Gorilla Gear overall winner and my pick for medium-light espresso.

Redla

tompoland Turbo’s with light/medium roast. I’m coming from a Niche so looking for flavour separation with mainly fruit notes.

coffeelover

Dusk For any possible UK buyers, I didn’t pay any additional fees for import duty/VAT etc

That’s interesting, I never know till I order anything whether there’s going to be additional charges. I ordered some gear from bluestarcoffee.eu and not been charged VAT but then the price was below £130

delta76

coffeelover no because I believe blustarcoffee.eu adjusts VAT on the shipping location. They then declare IOSS form for your shipment so it just goes through custom without problem. i.e. you already paid for the taxes and they do the declaration form.

Df64coffee however, as I heard, declares the shipment as something like motor replacement, with very low value. that is how they avoided taxes.

tompoland

Redla in that case, if it was my taste buds then I’d go with the SSP Espresso (HU) burrs. Bight/intense espresso from light roasted beans.

dutchy101

Pre order price £429 from Bella Barista. Wow - that’s a good price.

Dusk

I paid £365 direct, roughly £355 for the grinder and shipping and then I was charged £10 non sterling transaction fee by my bank.

dutchy101

That’s a result!

drdre89

@tompoland how would you compare the DLC burrs on the DF64 Gen2 to the Mazzer espresso burrs on the Niche Duo.

tompoland

drdre89 the DF64 Gen 2 don’t have DLC burrs (hope this does not appear pedantic) but rather an uncoated version of the DF DLC burrs that come with the DF64V. Both being DF 64mm burrs, only one being coated with the “Diamond Like Coating” that Gorilla Gear also use.

To answer your question though, I find (personal opninion, subjective etcetera) that the Mazzer 151B espesso burrs that come with the Duo offer a very traditional, smooth and inoffensive espresso. Silky smooth in fact. By comparision, the DF64 Gen 2 DF uncoasted burrs produce a stronger flavor - brighter with nut-like notes. Not better or worse than the Mazzer but distinctly different.

The BIG suprise for me was that the DLC version of exactly the same DF burr set (as in the DF54 Gen 2) offer more choc-like flavors and are especially well suited to milk based espresso.

My picks of those 3 burrs: Mazzer 151B for light or medium light espresso, DF DLC for choc-like milk based and DF uncoated for nut-like milk based.

And that’s why everyone needs at least two grinders, and three if they enjoy filter as well as espresso!

wilburpan

tompoland I really don’t like the DF83 v1 or v2. I’ve had trouble with three of them in regard to the collar misthreading as I’ve screwed them back on.

Not sure if this will change your mind, but if you’ve taken the collar completely off, giving the collar a turn counter-clockwise before starting to screw it back in place takes care of any misthreading issues. This is a pretty standard technique for using screw threads.

I’m more content to leave things be when I have my DF83 dialed in, and I’m pretty lazy about cleaning out my grinder. The net result is that I can easily go several months before I have to take the DF83 collar completely off. If I was doing a lot of comparison testing, I might be more annoyed by this.

And good luck with the website and YT channel! Looking forward to it.

tompoland

wilburpan Thanks for that tip. That could be very helpful, not just for the next 83 but also for the gen 1 DF64 I have issues with something. Appreciated.

FadedFrontiers

tompoland I really don’t like the DF83 v1 or v2. I’ve had trouble with three of them in regard to the collar misthreading as I’ve screwed them back on.

I got the impression that the 64v2 was heavily modelled on the 83’s burr chamber, wave spring and adjustment mechanism etc. - is there a noticeable difference between the actual threads on the 64v2 versus the 83s?

delta76

FadedFrontiers just to be clear you probably meant df64 gen 2?

they have had DF64 up to v5, and just recently released gen 2. think of it is 1.5 vs 2.0 :)

tompoland

FadedFrontiers . - is there a noticeable difference between the actual threads on the 64v2 versus the 83s?

Yep. The threads on the DF64 Gen 2 is more like Niche Zero / Duo threads.

FadedFrontiers

tompoland that’s great, I hadn’t seen it mentioned anywhere - a big improvement then

delta76

tompoland sorry for asking, what does “threads” mean in this context?

coffeelover

Been following this thread with a lot of interest as I’m wanting to upgrade my Mignon Speciality grinder since purchasing my ECM E61 machine.

We tend to drink mostly flat white’s using a darkish roast. I was looking at the Niche Zero but now thinking about the DF64 gen2.

Would it be worth upgrading to different burrs at the time of purchasing from the stock ones? If so, what would be a good choice from the various burr sets they offer.

I know its a personal choice but happy to take advised from guys here that are a lot more knowledgeable than me on this.

wilburpan

coffeelover

coffeelover Would it be worth upgrading to different burrs at the time of purchasing from the stock ones? If so, what would be a good choice from the various burr sets they offer.

I thought about this when I ordered my DF83. Ultimately, I decided to go with the stock burrs to start.

For the DF83, there was no cost savings if you ordered a different set of burrs when ordering the grinder. So it didn’t matter much if I got the different burrs immediately, or if I waited a while to order them.

As it turns out, I was really satisfied with the original burrs, and never ordered another set.

So I would just go with the burrs that come with the DF64 gen2, and see how you like them. Take some time so you get a good feel for what the stock burrs can and can’t do. At that point, you can decide if you want to replace the burrs. More importantly, you’ll have a better idea as to what you’ll want the the second set of burrs to do for your coffee.

tompoland

coffeelover Would it be worth upgrading to different burrs at the time of purchasing from the stock ones? If so, what would be a good choice from the various burr sets they offer.

The DF DLC burrs are worth getting especially for milk based drinks.

MediumRoastSteam

delta76 - the threads of the grinder, where the collar (threads) screws into the grinder’s body (threads).

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