Another potential GCP -> Elizabeth thread

BorisP

Hi, I’m new here and I’m already sorry to start another thread like that as there is a recent one pretty much like this one, except…

A year ago I purchased a GCP. I’ve only adjusted the OPV and decided not to spend money on PID. It feels like time part ways with the Gaggia…

My main issues with my Gaggia are:

Slow to heat up (just kiddin)
Too frequent water tank refills
Tiny drip tray.
Steam power is weak. I want to at least be able to steam right after brewing and have enough power to steam up to 400ml milk in in one go OR at least steam one after another without waiting.

We make mostly milk drinks and americanos in the morning with a littttle bit of milk (because of intermittent fasting).

Doing a lot of reading, being torn between BDB and Lizzie, I decided Lizzie. But then, lever machines are so tempting, however, I don’t want to sacrifice much in terms of steaming capabilities and the possibility of making two-three shots in a row, so La Pavoni is out of the equation as well as the Elektra which is also beyond my budget’s reach.
In fact, budget can only sustain a purchase of a Ponte Vecchio Lusso or Odyssey Argos. The Strega is much more expensive as well, and I haven’t seen many vendors that even ship it to my country.

Is that a mistake to get a lever machine as the main driver at home, especially if I mainly make milk drinks? It does feel risky to replace my Gaggia with a rather unknown Argos. However, I’m not too sure about Ponte Vecchio Lusso either.

Almost forgot, my grinder is a Eureka Specialita.

Thanks!

MediumRoastSteam

BorisP Is that a mistake to get a lever machine as the main driver at home, especially if I mainly make milk drinks?

Absolutely not. Instead of a pump… You have a lever. Having owned a Gaggia Classic, a Pro-700, 2 La Pavoni’s and now the Lelit Elizabeth, if you want convenience, repeatability, ease of use - Go with the Elizabeth 100%. You will not regret it.

The Pavoni is a great machine, but it can become a bit of a chore if you want to make drinks in a row. It will overheat, you need to make sure the group is de-pressurised, and, your first shot will never be as good as your second shot. It’s just how the machine works. Yet, your third shot will potentially be on the very hot side.

If you want a smooth, consistent faff free experience every morning… The Elizabeth is the way to go. Without a shadow of a doubt.

PS: I never ever used or seen a PV Lusso. But, the little I know is that they produce a very small shot - call it a ristretto if you wish - and they are not the most reliable things either.

DavecUK

BorisP In fact, budget can only sustain a purchase of a Ponte Vecchio Lusso or Odyssey Argos. The Strega is much more expensive as well, and I haven’t seen many vendors that even ship it to my country.

Small levers are often a second purchase to accompany a machine. The Elizabeth will do absolutely everything you want without any trouble. You will be shocked at how it performs against your current machine. Low maintenance and uses very little power especially because you can run with the steam boiler off until you need it, or if you want steam preinfusion.

Strega is expensive and perhaps something you need to think quite hard about…big step from Strega to Gaggia and arguably, a factory direct Evo would be far better value for money than a Strega..

The other machine you might consider out of left field, is a factory direct Minima, as I don’t think they have retailers in Israel….Lots of choice and I am sure others will chip in with more ideas.

LMSC

BorisP Liz to Strega! What’s your max budget for a machine please ? Thx

limelight

Even with the smaller capacity (good for heat up times), I’ve been very happy with the steam power of the Elizabeth - assuming you use the recommended settings from @DavecUK. Coming from a Barista Express, it was night and day difference. I make a few latte drinks every day and never felt like I needed more.

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK as I don’t think they have retailers in Israel

Israel?

Edit: I read the OP about 4 times. I don’t see the OP mentioning location :-)

DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam It was in his introduction post….

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK - ah! Thanks! For a moment I thought there was another part of the OP I could not see or a location tag. 👍

BorisP

I’m sorry, I meant the Strega is way beyond my budget’s reach, expensive lever machines are merely a fantasy at this point. I wasn’t aware ofthe small shot produced by the PV, thanks for clarifying.

Dave, there aren’t any local retailers of ACS, but there also aren’t any of the Lelit Elizabeth. The plan is to order from Amazon.de, there are other European shops that deliver to Israel. Some hobbyists order internationally machines that are available locally because of the great (at times absurd) differences in price.

I guess it’s better and far safer to stick with a machine like Elizabeth and save up big for serious toys like ACS Leva in the future.

MediumRoastSteam

BorisP but there also aren’t any of the Lelit Elizabeth

There’s a member here from Tel Aviv, @MisterH1337 , who has a MaraX (Lelit) and went to visit the retailer not long ago.

BorisP

They sell the MaraX here in Israel, it costs around 1515€. It’s easier to deal with a local retailer in case of an issue, however, people here don’t praise local retailers with good serviceability and many prefer to order internationally.

Though, if I were locked on a MaraX, I would buy it locally.

MaraX was the initial machine I wanted to upgrade to before I had done some reading online and found out about Lelit Elizabeth and the possibility of ordering it from Amazon internationally.

Now, Lelit Elizabeth goes for 1350€ buying from Amazon.fr which is almost 200€ cheaper. As far as I understand, the PID and Elizabeth being a dual boiler versus MaraX’s advanced HX system, is an advantage.

Would you pick the MaraX for mainly being sold by a local retailer to mitigate the risks of having to deal with Amazon internationally etc..? Other than that, the only thing that bugs me is the water tank and the cheap steam knob of Elizabeth compared to MaraX’s overall looks and easy to manage water tank.

MediumRoastSteam

BorisP - The MaraX is a top of the range HX machine, so it’s a lot more refined than then Elizabeth, which is an entry level dual boiler machine.

It’s hard to choose one. I chose the Elizabeth because:

Fast heat up time;
Compact size, and not deep;
More control over brew temperature;
Consume a lot less water (I distil and re-mineralise my water, so wasting it is not an option). This has since been improved as Lelit is now diverting the expansion valve outlet back to the tank rather than the drip tray.

If there was a retailer that would support me in case I need it - a local one is even better, I would definitely always choose that route. Now, if the retailer’s service is hit and miss… Then it’s debatable.

A coffee machine is an expensive item, so it’s important that you make the right decision, and make sure that you buy what you want rather than what’s available locally. What you don’t want is to buy what’s available locally and then be unhappy and remorseful with the choice you made.

Fredcafe

Hi, I’ve used a plumbed Quick Mill Andreja Premium for ten years before it broke some months ago. I’ve replaced it with an Elizabeth. The more I use it the more I enjoy it. Even if the Heat exchanger machine use a larger boiler the Lelit produce more steam. I’ve adjusted the pressure to 130 Celsius and it’s quite enough for my taste. It’s ready two times faster, it’s using a fraction of the energy of my previous machine, and it’s not over heating our appartment during the summer.

I miss a bit the possibility to connect the small Lelit to my water filter system, but I use less water because the group doesn’t overheat. It’s easy to adjust its many parameters, and I am still learning some of them. Also the cleaning duties are easier and faster.

Yes the shiny E-61 is beautiful, but the Lelit double boiler has many other charms.

DavecUK

With the price of electricity rocketing in the UK machines like the Elizabeth, Evo Lever and Nurri Lever make a lot of sense. The levers because with a 15m warm up you can turn them off without worrying about warm up times. Also any dual boiler machine where you can turn the steam boiler off….Even MaraX is better for energy usage than a lot of HXs because it idles at a much lower temp.