Decisions, decisions: a little help from my friends?

Bobbyji

Hi all. I’d like to know your opinions about a choice I’ll be making, and ultimately, my dilemma.

First off I’m living in India, which has the highest VAT of anywhere from what I understand, so what coffee equipment we have here is expensive. My wife was nudging me to take a break and to accompany her to Malaysia in a couple of months, so in considering this I thought to see if I could get a better deal there and bring a machine back with me. This avoids the VAT too, unless your purchase goes over USD$3600 or so.

What I discovered was that I could pick up a number of machines there which are not available here, or if they are the difference in the price would pay for the airfare back and forth.

Before I list what is available I want to disclose that my ultimate Machine would be a Lever, like the ACS, but it’s beyond my means right now, and if I didn’t go pick it up in Italy the 28% Import VAT here would kill the deal anyway. My 2nd choice would be the Bianca as I need to do more Profiling…

I have found 3 Profitec machines that I know very little about, and which I would like some help in comparing to the Bianca. These are the Pro 600, Drive, & the Pro 800 v2 Lever (I know it is a traditional dipper, a la Bosco, but they’ve done yo-mans duty forever, so…?)

TIA for your thoughts and comments.

Bob

LMSC

Bobbyji Bianca would be my choice, if I were you. It’s a great machine. There is one available for sale at the classifieds listed by @Cuprajake. It’s a shame you can’t have them unless you find a way of importing it. I know it is a lot cheaper to fly from India to the UK than vice-versa. 🤣

Can’t these be had in India ?

@MediumRoastSteam can tell you all about Profitec as he had them before.

What about the grinder and water?

Bobbyji

LMSC Can’t these be had in India ?

@MediumRoastSteam can tell you all about Profitec as he had them before.

What about the grinder and water?

Thanks for the input. Yep, the Bianca is available here, and is also one of the reasons for the comparison against it. The praises of this Lelit are extraordinary, which doubtless it is, but I’m thinking the competition must be catching up by now, while employing the desirable features of the Bianca. But there is always more to the equation than mere copy/pasting. What I was thinking while trying to phrase my question to you all, and what I’m wondering, for instance if the Company Profitec is on the same level… I know every Brand has it’s fans, but the Bianca seems to go beyond this, which indicates (at least to me) that it really is a solid performer.

The other part that I’d hoped to pull out of this group here, seeing that there are so many Lever fans, was the ‘trade-off’ between the choices in comparison between this e61 and a Lever. In this case the Pro 800. Some years back I actually sent Roberta Bosco the money for a 2-group at my former Cafe in Manali, but for some reason that I’ve forgotten there was a problem and I got refunded the money. Point here is I’ve been fixed on a Lever for a Long Time; I was trained in 1983 to Service the Levers @ABC Coffee (?) in LA, and have hankering for one since then I think.

I have a couple of Italian On-Demand MaCaf Grinders which have 64mm Burrs and preform well, but these will soon be designated to our Cupping Room here, and I’ve just purchased a version of the DF64 to use on my home coffee bar where also the espresso machine in question will reside.

Regarding water, a good question considering my location (!), is that I’ve set up a Distilling Station and where I will build my Coffee Water at. Been using demineralized RO water up to this point…

MediumRoastSteam

Last time I had a Profitec 700 was in 2017. There are a lot more options now, and they are a bit different (you can’t choose to turn both elements in parallel, higher milk pressure, etc).

Would I buy a Pro-700 again? No. For the money, in the UK, and for the features they offer (or lack thereof) I’d get a Bianca. They say the ECM/Profitec machines are better built. Maybe. Would a home user care they the Bianca’s cover is harder to remove than the ECM/Profitec? Doubt it. Just look on HomBarista and a few people have reported SSR failures. So don’t just assume that because you are buying a “better brand” you won’t have any problems.

As for the Profitec 800… just bear in mind it’s a dipper (you know that) and the boiler size is something like 3.5L. The water will be sitting in that copper boiler, brought to steam temperatures, for a while, and you’ll be drinking it. If you are planning to drink 10 coffees a day I understand, but for 2-4 coffees a day? I’m not so sure. And it takes a minimum of 45 minutes (or you flush a lot of water) to bring the group to up to temperature. It’s huge.

As a footnote… I have a Lelit Elizabeth. Apparently a distributor here in the UK is saying they are no longer stocking the machine due to the high fault rate. It’s been good, for me, for over 3 years now (touch wood). My Profitec Pro-700 had to have the Gicar box replaced (the controlling box) 10 months from new.

LMSC

Bobbyji Unless you managed to find a used ACS lever, as an example, you are unlikely to avoid paying VAT in India. Even if you find one, proving the cost to your customs and excise would be a challenge. :-)

Edit:

In summary, Bianca is a great choice although your heart lies somewhere.

delta76

I’m biased but my vote go to bianca. it makes a lot more senses where I live (EU), as it can be had for significantly cheaper than other options (Profitec 700/ECM Synchronika). In the US it’s more or less same price, but it still has the edge of

super fast heating time for an E61 (17 minutes. Mine is ready in less than 15 minutes)
amazing temp stability (again, for an E61)
flow control. you don’t need it all the time, but it can come in handy
LCC is terrific compared to other basic PID

I almost bought a Synchronika, but then made an U turn and bought Bianca. Haven’t regretted the decision

delta76

now I’ve read your post more carefully, be reminded that except a few exceptions like Decent, all prosumer espresso machines are heavy and bulky, the package will be at least 30kg, and you will need a pallet in most cases to avoid damage. I don’t know how you will travel but take that into account.

Bobbyji

Thanks for the advise friends. I can get the Bianca here in India, with support if needed, so that’s the way that I’ll be going. It’ll serve it’s purpose well I’m sure, and if I ever land up in a place where it’s easier to obtain a Lever, I’ll look into that option then. Plus Dave said that he’s been working with some other company’s Lever machine, so it seems that we’ll all have more to choose from in the future.

Thanks again,

Bob