Quick Mill Sunny 2046 - who has used it?

Harryporter23

On paper the Quick Mill Sunny (2046) looks like a really interesting machine.

PID controlled Thermoblock for good temp control.

Separate steam boiler

Pre infusion and manual flow control

Loads of other stuff too.

But there is literally no reviews, so has anyone had their hands on this machine??

dfk41

QM machines do not seem popular on this forum for some reason. Perhaps that tells you something? If you visit our host, @DavecUK review site you will find some in depth reviews there but not so much since Lockdown. It is just my humble opinion, but @Cuprajake has made you a really good offer on his Bianca.

https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com

Abcan

Hi @Harryporter23. I’ve not used it but I popped into Ferrari Espresso a few months ago to look at the Quick Mill QM67 and the sunny had just come in. It did look really nice in the flesh. Unfortunately it was not up and running. It’s quite pricey and I ended up buying an ACS Minima but like you would be interested to see what coffee people think of using it. The finish was very good.

Harryporter23

Abcan that is where I have discovered it , although only digitally not in the flesh.

It is pricey but I the reason I am interested is that it offers a lot of flexibility (for me) and programmable setting (for my wife).

It looks like it has all the makings for a solid machine.

I did notice that @DavecUK took delivery of one, but I can’t find any further information on it ….. can you shed any more light on this machine?

DavecUK

Harryporter23 I did notice that @DavecUK took delivery of one, but I can’t find any further information on it ….. can you shed any more light on this machine?

The machine is a bit of a mixed bag. I had two, the first one was not fit for purpose and I asked QM to make changes…they did some..not all of them, they did make the critical ones. Overall the machine was never going to be a good seller, it was quite expensive, some bits like the portafilter was very non standard and used a very unusual system.

I liked certain aspects of the machine….I did the engineering review for Bella Barista and they decided not to stock it because ultimately the pricing meant it wouldn’t be competitive. I do like QM and so wanted it to work out, especially as I did quite a lot of work on the engineering reviews.

The Machines were ultimately returned to Bella Barista and then back to QM, so I can’t do any more tests, or show you any shots etc.. So all that work (weeks and weeks) for absolutely nothing.

I think you have a much better machine in the Bianca

Harryporter23

DavecUK Thank you Dave, that says more than enough. It’s a shame but I appreciate the candidness.

coffeemaster

Sorry for mistakes in English (I’m not native)

PROS:

- Very fast heat-up time, it takes 8-9 min to complete (including boiler) 8 min it’s crucial for me. I don’t like huge machines like Rancilio Silvia Pro X or open huge chunk of metal as E61

- the thermoblock is ready in 3 mins. It’s crucial for me because I don’t want to wait ½ hour in the morning to make a drink

- steam is very good and stable

- magnetic tamper and holder are good. Tamper has a slightly conical form. Baskets have flat edges (not rounded) but I’m good with them and don’t want to replace them because it also needs to replace the shower.

CONS:

Price: almost $2K (incl VAT and shipping) in EU

The machine has a crucial design issue, it has only one OPV that works as follows:

- In manual mode there is no pre-infusion mode, you have to quickly rotate the lever down to get up to 3 bars to get preinfusion and after some time suitable for you rotate the lever again up to get classic 9 bars, OPV is always connected to water line goes to thermoblock.

- In dosing/automatic mode (by pressing the “cup” button) OPV is connected to the water line only during preinfusion time (10 secs for double shot) After this time machine disconnects OPV from the water line at all. Because of this you can see so much pressure.

Engineers used adjustable OPV to give the ability to adjust pressure in manual mode and adjust pre-infusion pressure in dosing mode.

So OMG, I have paid 2000 bucks and have a machine without any OPV in automatic mode. So for me high extraction pressure kills timing mode because I don’t like the espresso extracted under higher pressure in 12-13bars. Currently I mostly use the machine only in manual mode to get the preinfusion in 3 bars and extraction with 8.5bar and looking how install an addition OPV,

I mailed QuickMill 3 times and they responded with nothing intelligible and ignored my video with questions about how this OPV works (all 3 emails) within 1month. I sent them an email from another mailbox with a “test question” about another machine and they responded within 1 hour :).

The right top edge of the machine is not strictly straight, it has a triangle form.Vibration pump is pretty loud, I had to wrap up polyurethane foam over a vibration pump, which reduced noise by half.
The cable on the right side of the machine looks ugly, engineers could add a separate button or switch for starting manual extraction
To access shot making timing (the most useful page) I have to press and wait for the longest amount of time or you have to connect your phone to machine WiFi and adjust settings in the browser. Basically I don’t want to always change WIFI networks on my phone.

FINAL thoughts:

This machine is experimental and a matter of debate.I left the machine because it didn’t make sense to pay $200 for return shipping. Do you have to pay 2K bucks for this machine - DEFINITELY NO. No support, no answers.

I think the main idea of Sunny is that you can play with pressure as you want and the dosing mode is a minor additional mode or you have to install an additional OPV to limit pressure in this mode. I wanted an automatic mode as “set and forget it” to have every day identical shots with same flavor (with same beans of course)

So it better to look at similar machines dual-boiler or thermoblock machines like LELIT Elizabeth PL92T, Silvia Pro X, ascaso steel Duo PID, Bezzera Crema

DavecUK

coffeemaster This machine is experimental and a matter of debate.I left the machine because it didn’t make sense to pay $200 for return shipping. Do you have to pay 2K bucks for this machine - DEFINITELY NO. No support, no answers.

It sounds like yours extracts automatically at high pressure. I did specify an extra expansion valve set to 9-10 bar to avoid this when using only the push buttons. If it’s in your machine, it can be adjusted. My strong recommendation though pay the $200 and return it!

P.S. If you still decide not to return it, do not let the shower screen stay dirty for too long, your you will never unblock it and be buying new ones of those.

coffeemaster

DavecUK I did specify an extra expansion valve

What valve are you use and fittings? Especially item numbers and diameters

coffeemaster

do not let the shower screen stay dirty for too long
Good point thanks, I unscrewed one without issues, the shower is also “unique” it has a spring

DavecUK

coffeemaster Good point thanks, I unscrewed one without issues, the shower is also “unique” it has a spring

The spring is to a form of non return valve, so nothing goes back the wrong way when you cut the shot…remember this machine cannot and should not be backflushed.

DavecUK

coffeemaster What valve are you use and fittings? Especially item numbers and diameters

QM put it in to a 2nd test machine I evaluated. So I don’t know and forgot to take a photo. The machine was decided not to be stocked by the retailer.

giampiero

coffeemaster You can find lots of info in a German forum, if i remember well few members did retrofit an OPV.

DavecUK

I told QM to put it here, plus some other instructions for something else.

coffeemaster

One of enthusiasts installed expansion valve right after the pump
https://www.kaffee-netz.de/threads/quick-mill-2046-sunny.142314/page-5#post-2071785
Looks like it’s much easier place than unscrew a copper tube goes to the thermoblock. I’m disappointed that I will have to modify overpriced machine again like I had to modify my old Gaggia classic pro to get max 9 bars too

MediumRoastSteam

coffeemaster I’m disappointed that I will have to modify overpriced machine again

Not totally related to this… But why did you buy this machine? Didn’t you research what were you buying first, specially considering it’s an overpriced machine?

coffeemaster

MediumRoastSteam It’s compact and has very short heat up time. Almost all similar machines have depth in 45cm like or are huge. The detail research of the issue is only available on DE forum.
Before purchase I did some research
Sage BES920UK- poor customer reviews about warranty
LELIT Elizabeth PL92T - good
Bezzera Crema, Silvia Pro X - huge
Elektra verve - looks awesome but cost tons of money
Bellezza Bellona - looks good but don’t like external water tank
Ascaso steel Duo PID - too expensive
So Sunny looked like a compromise between dimensions, full heat-up time and price. I hope that expansion valve will solve the issue with high pressure in timing mode because my wife doesn’t want to play with pressure

DavecUK

coffeemaster Shame you didn’t find us first.

Electra Verve = crap, awful machine, I reviewed one ages ago when it first came out. Gave them lots of engineering feedback which they completely ignored.

From memory you do have to run the Sunny quite hot to get good temps, or use an offset…if the production models kept that coding. See an excerpt from my engineering report below.

A major problem with the use of a non standard group and non standard portafilters is measurement of temperature. As the machine came set from the factory, I believe it to be 4 or 5C lower on brew temperature than actually displayed. The other concern I have is that this relationship may not be linear? e.g. for 91 I need 95 on the display, but for 94, I might need 99 on the display? I have a SCACE II, but the portafilter doesn’t fit….I have a device I made years ago for measuring temperature, but the basket doesn’t fit. This means my only way of measuring temperature is taste and appearance of coffees I know very well. Of course the user can increase temperature until they get the desired taste, but the displayed temperature is misleading I received the technical menu settings password this morning, but unfortunately the parameters that can be changed are very basic and there is no facility for changing the brew temperature “offset” in this menu. So we are stuck with whatever the hard coded temperature displayed is. An offset would have allowed me to make adjustments vs displayed and actual brew temps using a -10 to +10 offset parameter and should be added. Otherwise there are separate PID settings for each Boiler (thermoblock). What is unclear to me is whether the group heater runs at a set temperature e.g. 90C and the PID attempts to manage the temperature of the thermoblock? I say this because brew temperature does little to manage the temperature of the brew water due to the very small contact path. After a quick look inside I believe the group is passively heated by conduction from the thermoblock maintained at 80C until an espresso shot is performed?

The issues have been addressed by adding an offset parameter allowing the user to increase the actual thermoblock temperature for any displayed brew temp, e.g. if 93 I felt was 3C too cold, I can add an offset to make 93 3C hotter. The offset has a more than sufficient range. I am still experimenting to find the best standard value.

Espresso shots now look and taste better as I can reach the proper temperatures required!

coffeemaster

Finally I have fixed this annoying pressure so I used adjustable OPV from my old Gaggia Classic. Most of the items have been purchased on Aliexpress for a few bucks. I am afraid that the electric board is located too close to the thermoblock and may die in time due to overheating.Some fittings cannot be disassembled without force or damage - the engineers used glue or silicone sealant to connect fittings instead of PTFE tape.
The sad thing is that Quickmill didn’t responded on any emails why the pressure is not limited at all in the timing mode

DavecUK

coffeemaster The sad thing is that Quickmill didn’t responded on any emails why the pressure is not limited at all in the timing

Probably because they did it for the test machine as I insisted, BB didn’t want to stock it, so they probably didn’t bother for main production as no retailer would have been insisting they do it….cos most retailers don’t run a machine past someone like me.