Hi, My Niche arrived yesterday a little earlier than anticipated so I need to make a decision on which machine to pair with it. I am coming from a Sage Oracle but have decided that I would like the machine with dual boilers and a rotary pump. The question is which machine? The Lelit Bianca is the stand out when looking at reviews and value for money but from my experience of other hobbies sometimes this value for money isn’t always great. The Bianca may be the exception and really is just a great value proposition. The other machines I have considered are: Profitect Pro 700 ECM Synchronika Rocket Cinquantotto I had never considered any kind of profiling before reading about the Bianca and I am still unsure if I will use it that regularly. So will any of the machines above have any positive or negatives versus the Bianca? Are there any others I should consider such as the Linea Mini? Cheers Ross

@"Goodfella"#p3814 Please advise us the following : Is there a problem with your Oracle? What’s not working ? How long have you had it? How many cups do you pull and how many of them are milk-based please? As an upgrade, as an end-game machine, I would rather buy Bianca or Vesuvius (this is directly) from @"Paolo_Cortese"#90 of ACS. It probably costs about £150 more than Bianca. You can email Paolo at *p.cortese@elcor.it* and ask. @"Cuprajake"#144 has had many machines, ended up with Bianca and he is super happy. Last but not the last, please do not forget your water. Thx

Morning, a few years ago, I had the P700. I found it very 'German'! |It was efficient but had absolutely no soul. Please forget Rocket. Others may expand but in my view they have not really kept up with the times. Again, I had one several years ago. When it came out of the box the water arm fell off! As more folks see your post then suggestions will come in, but the one you mention yet seem to discount, the Bianca is very good!

I’ve gone from a Sage Dual Boiler this last year to Lelit Bianca and definitely see that now as my end game machine. I wondered whether I’d really make use of the flow control and therefore profiling element and perhaps I am not as a\*n\*a\*l about it as some taking note of what I am doing with different coffees and so you might argue I am still not making most of it, but I think of that as room for growth if I want to go there. it’s been trial and error but it’s not complicated at all and a joy to use, actually way less faff and more control than I’ve had before. Ok you can go to more complex and expensive machines with digital and programmable profiling, but for me the focus is the end result without, as I said, the faff and to me at least all the programmable element is the faff even though I know I’d be quite capable of dealing with it if I could be bothered! So I guess budget is key but then really your own personal preference as to approach in coffee making and tastes. None of those machines are bad choices I’d say. I’d suggest though you go take a look at Dave’s review of the Bianca and his videos. https://news.bellabarista.co.uk/lelit-bianca/

Thanks for the replies guys. I sold the Oracle, it was working fine and made good coffee at times but was inconsistent and I had to stick with darker roasts for it to work well. I had to use the warranty a couple of times which made me nervous about the machine going forward also. Interesting that you say the Profitec felt very German as I tend to go down the efficient but boring line of German engineering when making purchases. Not many have good things to say about Rocket. Maybe my hesitation on the Bianca is around looks, I may have to find somewhere with them and have a good look for myself. Ross

@"SiblingChris"#p3848 thanks for the reply, I am very much in your camp re: faff and many a time I have bought items with all the bells and whistles but only every used it in its simplest form. That’s kinda what intrigues me about the Linea Mini, no bells and whistles but assumed quality due to its price. It could just all be style over substance though? I do want this to be my “end game” machine though. Ross

lm trade on their name and for nearly 4k you're not getting value for money imo

What does the LMLM actually offer over and above the machines you are considering? They have brand reputation, but that only appeals to certain folks. Ask yourself this. If someone presented you with 5 of your favourite drinks, made on 5 well known machines, would you be able to pick out the LMLM? If not, why not? The obvious answer of course is no, so why pay more for something that delivers less or the same? Does owning a Mercedes A class really make you feel like a real Merc owner?

You can mod a lmlm but thats abother 1500 onto so im led to belive

The LMLM offers no more in on paper spec, if anything less, I suppose I was wondering is it the price it is because it’s built like a tank or it’s components are of a higher quality. It feels like that’s not the case and it is trading on its looks. Currently when friends or family come round I end up making 4 or 5 milk drinks back to back which happens most weeks the rest of the time is would be 2, twice a day. Do any of the machine I mentioned have better steaming performance than the others? Also I have just assumed I will get the machine from Bella Barista, should I be checking anyone else out? Ross

Mate, you are probably over thinking here; understandable, though! 😊 If it is Bianca - Bella Barrista! If Vesuvius - Direct from Paolo of ACS You can’t go wrong with either of these. Both are excellent machines, as we advised you before. If you feed the machine with good water that won’t scale or significantly reduce the risk, and give the TLC she deserves, she will serve you very well for a long long time. I am sorry as I am not sure if you mentioned anything about your water situation. We can’t emphasis more than enough than by simply advising you to sort this before getting a new machine.

Which Dual Boiler

Beverast

John_Yossarian Don’t know if I fully agree with the PC analogy - my PC is over 2 years old and can still comfortably play the latest games at 2560×1440 60FPS, mostly on the highest quality settings and 4k with a mix of settings. I doubt I will need to upgrade anytime soon…for at least another year or 2.

John_Yossarian

Beverast I was talking about the game enthusiasts that populate forums such as overclockers.co.uk

Rarely a “self respected” gamer would stay with the same rig for longer than 12 months. And I do not mean to undermine your gamer’s skills at all. 🙂

Beverast

John_Yossarian Ah ok, fair enough. I would not consider myself a skilful gamer anyway so no worries haha 😁

Goodfella

So I have chosen a machine! I am going to be getting an ECM Synchronika, it came down to aesthetics in the end.

What are thoughts on what smart plug to get? I am not in a smart eco system so any type will do.

I have started to look in to water too and in all honesty it has my head spinning.

Cheers

Ross

DavecUK

Goodfella I use Meross smart plugs, they integrate wethh with Alexa.

Mutepost

Goodfella I have the Synchronika and have been very happy with it. Great steam and plenty of it and really nice quality to the exterior - I’m sure you’ll be pleased with your purchase. Just remember its super heavy and you might need some help getting it out of the box and up on the counter ! As for value for money, well if your using something every day and its part of your kitchen, then you may well need to take aesthetics into consideration and that includes the weight and feel of the components, levers, handles etc.

My favourite definition of ‘value’ is “the perceived benefits, usefulness, and importance of something". It means that value is entirely subjective. For some the La Marzocco Linea Mini is overpriced for it’s technical functions for others it’s a joy to see every morning - just as my Synchronika is for me when I stumble into the kitchen on a Sunday morning…

Grif

LMSC

Goodfella So I have chosen a machine! I am going to be getting an ECM Synchronika

Very nice, enjoy👍

Dumnorix

Another vote for Meross from me- also work well with Google Home.

Goodfella

Thanks guys, best get some ordered.

Ross

LMSC

Goodfella What did you end up with? Is it Bianca or Vesuvius or something else ? Thx

Ernie1

Yet another vote for the Bianca, I’ve had mine three months and still look forward to using it every day.

I suppose looks are subjective but to me it has the aesthetic appeal of a classic car or a well-kept Vincent motorbike.

I coveted a LMLM but realised I don’t own a coffee shop or an Instagram account so saved myself £2.5k and couldn’t be happier with the Bianca. It also comes with some great accessories (spouted & bottomless portafilter and decent tamper among others)

DavecUK

Ernie1 The Bianca is a great machine at a really good price.

Norvin

Ernie1 Yet another vote for the Bianca, I’ve had mine three months and still look forward to using it every day.

I suppose looks are subjective but to me it has the aesthetic appeal of a classic car or a well-kept Vincent motorbike.

Did someone mention Vincents?

Actually, I’ve often thought that there are parallels between the Evo Leva and the early post war Vincent twins; no compromise quality and performance, put together using parts from other machines in the range in an innovative compact design, competition beating performance from the off, no shortage of detractors most of which have never used one.

If you think that posh coffee machines are a rabbit hole leading down into a money pit…😄

Sorry, got carried away there, didn’t mean to derail the thread.

Goodfella

LMSC

As Grif mentioned I went with the ECM Synchronika in the end, mainly down to aesthetic’s. Had it just over a week now and I am over the moon. Thoroughly enjoying the process and the difference in taste using the same beans compared to my Oracle is amazing, probably more to do with the Niche though.

I was a little anxious about how long it would take to be able to steam milk but it has been instant, very easy and quick!!

Should the Porta Filter live in the group head even when it’s off? When I got my Oracle the Sage guy told me it should only be in when heating up.

Cheers

Ross

LMSC

Goodfella Very nice! Well done and enjoy your coffee making.

Goodfella Should the Porta Filter live in the group head even when it’s off? When I got my Oracle the Sage guy told me it should only be in when heating up.

It’s ok to leave. I always lock it back even when the machine is off.

DavecUK

Goodfella Should the Porta Filter live in the group head even when it’s off? When I got my Oracle the Sage guy told me it should only be in when heating up.

Locke it in lightly, not as hard as you would when making a coffee. When you use the timer, having it gently locked in is essential.

Mutepost

Goodfella Lovely looking setup and tamper station looks great..

Mutepost

Goodfella Should the Porta Filter live in the group head even when it’s off

Mine does - but somehow I often find a used puck in there a few days later..

Goodfella

Mutepost

Thanks, still awaiting a knock box, bottomless PF and funnel but everything is out of stock atm!

DavecUK

Mutepost Mine does - but somehow I often find a used puck in there a few days later..

When I come down in the morning, the machines all warmed up and there is a nice spent. puck toasting inside the group….I have a little bit of hate for that puck and myself for leaving it there!

Giphy - Joe Biden GIF by Election 2020

Goodfella

DavecUK

I haven’t managed that yet with this machine or the last but I can imagine the horror!!

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