To set the scene I have a Niche Zero (like most haha) but find myself drinking lighter and lighter roasts. Now the coffee tastes good but i'm lead to believe a flat burr grinder will give better flavour separation and clarity. With that I want to try a flat burr grinder to see for myself what the difference is like. I have been interested in the DF64 Gen 2, DF83 and the Niche Duo seeing as the zero is great. The market is saturated with options so hoping you guys can help me out with a few suggestions.

The 64mm options will give cheaper scope for playing with different burrs 83mm growing in popularity for aftermarket burrs should you wish bit there £300 a pop Pick your poison and be happy If you like the workflow of the niche and the looks get that There really isn't a wrong answer in todays market

If you can wait til March, Mazzer are releasing a SD grinder with tool free burr swap. Nobody knows how good it will be but Mazzer know how to make a decent burr and it’ll be built like a tank if that matters. However it’s 64mm and likely to be be £1000. It used to be the case that between 500-1000 there wasn’t a lot worth having for the home. The Duo and some of the Asian made grinders have completely changed that.

@"HarveyMushman"#p58312 just on this and the Mazzer Philos, I thought I’d reach out Mazzer to get more information. What I got back from a guy called Luca was that it will be available in early 2023 (a typo because he definitely meant to write 2024) but the price has not been set. I hope it’ll be £1,000.

@"Verion"#p58315 Yeah I’m not sure where the £1000 came from, there were rumours when it was first announced, then something about if being a special launch price. I’d imagine Mazzer are in a bit of a pickle with how to price it. Their grinders probably appear overpriced for the home user given their limited features presumably due to Italian manufacture and commercial-grade robustness. When you think a new Super Jolly can cost nearly a grand, it makes the Philos seem like a snip for the same money. But if they put it too much higher, they’re not going to get anywhere near competing with grinders like the Duo and Asian offerings. I’m planning to buy one as I like the Mazzer grinders I’ve owned and appreciate the craftsmanship but am under no illusion it’s likely to far outperform cheaper offerings.

I'd be very surprised if the new mazzer is closer to 1k than 2k When you look at the pricing for say the zm.

@"Cuprajake"#p58317 Yeah same. Problem is if it’s £1k there’s a lot of competition already. If it’s almost £2k that end of the market is probably going to be considering Kafatek/Weber level grinders.

New sense grind by weight is 20% off preorder shipping in Jan. I am enjoying my all ground (by time).. it just works and makes good fluffy grinds :) Heck I am quite tempted by the sense though not sure I can justify a second…

The Mazzer is a difficult one to price. If it ends up being approx £1k, and it performs well, then the Niche Duo/Asian offerings will have a pretty big competition on their hands against a long time grinder manufacturer for customers that may step up into the next price bracket of £1k and above for a quality grinder. The other two interesting grinders at the higher price point of £1k - £2k are the Lagom P64 and the Moca SD. If the Mazzer lives up to it's expectations, you've won a of lot of people that don't need to push themselves over the £1k. I think that if Mazzer can find a sweet spot on the price, it could become the grinder of choice in the single does space.

@"Verion"#p58341 mind you though that a df64 goes for sub £400 in the UK, currently £359 at Bella Barista, df64 gen2 at £429. One could buy 2 df64 and have money to spare for all the mods and even burr upgrades. £1k is quite a significant amount of money for a grinder of that class, in my opinion at least.

Which grinder up to £1000?

MattH

I still think warranty support will be painful if you can only deal with mazzer in italy.

HarveyMushman

MattH it’s a Mazzer, you won’t need it!

InfamousTuba

MattH

It is easy enough to get parts and service mazzers, especially if you have local engineers that service espresso machines and grinders. But again if it is built like other mazzer products it won’t need much in the way of maintenance, especially because it doesn’t have any screens or dosing by time or weight features

MediumRoastSteam

On the Mazzer Philos topic, there are some posts on HB saying Mazzer burrs don’t last very long, rated 100kg or so if using dense, lighted roasted beans.

I haven’t got the foggiest idea how long a burr set lasts, and, with my usage, I’m looking at 10 years of continuous use if those comments are true. On the other hand, apparently SSP burrs will last 70 trillion years and survive the blade runner apocalypse.

In any case, is this right or are people there talking absolutely nonsense?

https://www.home-barista.com/grinders/new-mazzer-grinder-announcement-mazzer-philos-t89622-240.html#p966210

JahLaza

MediumRoastSteam In any case, is this right or are people there talking absolutely nonsense?

Yes (well with my limited experience anyways!!) But look, unless there’s some specific scenario they’re on about that doesnt make sense

FadedFrontiers

MediumRoastSteam On the Mazzer Philos topic, there are some posts on HB saying Mazzer burrs don’t last very long, rated 100kg or so if using dense, lighted roasted beans.

Not very good for a grinder that Mazzer describes as light commercial.

On the plus side Mazzer 64mm burrs are cheaper to buy replacements for than SSP, but even then SSP advertise 50x longer lifespan with their coated burrs.

More than us home users will ever need but a consideration for commercial environments.

MattH

I suspect they just like the sound of their own voices 😂. Do you think anyone ever gets round to making and drinking the coffee 🤔

Seriously mazzer have been making grinders for a long time - and the majority Of their business is commercial so I expect you would get a good lifespan out of the burrs…

Cuprajake

Didn’t even have to look, I knew malling would be in that. Self professed burr man. He knows everything

HarveyMushman

Even using the burrs for filter and espresso 100kg would last me 5 years… or approx 20p per week.

I probably spill at least 20p worth of beans down the side of the fridge each week.

tompoland

steve_07

My two bobs worth, just my opinion…

I’ve had the three grinders you mentioned. Still have Duos and the DF64 Gen 2.

If price is not a factor, I’d pick the Duo, hands down. Add SSP Espresso (HU) burrs for the best light roast espresso I’ve ever tasted.

The Mazzer Philos looks pretty awesome but not sure about availability.

(Not a fan of the DF83. The new V will be better, I’m sure.)

Jony

Only 64, they doing a bigger burr?? Sorry been out coffee game few years now, things slightly moved

Verion

I’m not particularly worried about the Mazzer burrs being rated for 100kg. It fits my usage and within the 5 or so years before they need replacing, someone will have probably swapped for SSP burrs and reviewed it to death and on top of that a 1000 threads elsewhere asking which burrs are best to swap to.

If the home run is 1000 euros delivered, and UK prices being closer to £1,300 all in, it puts it up against the Lagom P64 and the Moca SD and I’ll bite.

Cuprajake

Non of us are wearing burrs out lol

JonWoo187

Cuprajake If you believe the self-entitled burrologists on some forums you need X amount to properly break in, then have X amount of useful life then the burrs are totally worthless. That window of opportunity to get things 100% is here and gone in a snap…

For home use/personal consumption I calculated I’ve cranked out in excess of 25K double extractions over the years. No doubt I’ve put some wear on different burr sets, but have honestly never felt the need to replace any just because they seemed to give out. Do they wear and degrade in quality/efficiency? Sure, but not a drastic night/day difference with any grinder I’ve used.

InfamousTuba

If the grinder is rated for light commercial use, that would be the main way people would get through 100kg in a reasonable amount of time. Again at 1000€ it does seem very interesting, still need to wait for it to get into people’s hands first

MattH

I thought the burrs on the philios are new for this - so how does anyone know who well they last - its just fluff filling time until the release…

FadedFrontiers

MattH I thought the burrs on the philios are new for this - so how does anyone know who well they last - its just fluff filling time until the release…

In the thread they’re talking about the mini A burrs using Mazzer’s own numbers, SJ are 440kg. One of the Philos’ set of burrs are based on minis so not a bad comparison.

But it’s not like these life ratings put cafes off given the amount of Mazzers you see kicking around in them, I’m sure many commercial customers push far beyond that rating without even noticing 😁

tompoland

Stock Mazzer burrs are as cheap as you can get for good quality burrs.

But their new k-series burrs in the 83mm range are up there with SSP in pricing, and sometime quite hard to get hold off, at least from Australia. For example a k151I was AU$430 (_GBG249 _US$295). The k151G was almost unobtainium and ended up being over AU$600 landed. Ouch. But it’s a burr that delivers clarity as impressively as any other that I’ve tried.

So if their new 64mm burr series follows suite, I’d expect them to be two to three times the price of say the stock mini 64mm burrs. Mazzers range of burrs in 83mm is as impressive as their 64mm range is underwhelming. But it looks like the Philos will spearhead a change in their 64mm range. That would be great because they have produced some stunning new burrs in the 83mm range.

steve_07

Thanks all for the input and advice.

My gut is telling me DF64 gen 2 and maybe get some SSP lab sweet down the line but the new DF83V has me thinking. I like the idea of vertical burrs but have no idea on if its a benefit at all.

Cuprajake

Read into the lab sweets, some had really mixed results with them, like buying ultra light Nordic roasts and then it was mellowing them out

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