Happy new year to all. I have a very slow-moving renovation underway and at its’ end I shall be ordering a Niche Duo with both burr sets. However, I realize, I may need an additional grinder (Thank you Tom P ;-) I’m not being obsessive, just thorough. The additional grinder would be used solely for Nordic light roast coffees; 80% espresso and 20% filter. I have researched as far as I may, and arrived at a decision tree of possible solutions in my preferred order of less expensive, smaller, simpler through more of each of those parameters. I am aware that Tom’s massive Burrathon may cast further illumination on my question, however there is no time for compulsion as good as the present ;-) In order of desirability to me these are what I am considering and why: Niche Duo with stock burrs: Although almost every user comment and review I’ve read talks about this as optimum with medium and dark roast, and I understand the burr geometry may slant it that way, I’ve not actually read anywhere that it is less desirable with Nordic roasts and I even thought I saw a mention of Tim Wendelboe using one in his cafe. (this may be entirely faulty memory on my part). However, if the ND does as well with Nordic as with darker roasts I need look no further. Niche Duo with unannounced third burr set option, — the Niche Omni Light burr set. While it would be shrewd for Niche to do this and it would actually benefit many existing customers as well as create new ones, I believe them unlikely to do so. Sadly, because it really would be the best solution for light roast drinkers. Niche Duo with 3rd party burrs: I had a discussion with Dave about this some months back, and he confirmed my guess that there is no advantage to doing this for general use. The stock burrs are very capable and the grinder is tuned for them. We did not discuss use with Nordic roasts specifically. It appears purchase of another burr carrier on the secondary market plus a set of SSP Cast CV2 aka Lab Sweet 83mm uncoated burrs will run $400 to $600, so priced well. More importantly for me, no additional space is required, and I get to make additional use of an exceptional grinder. NB — I have zero interest in SSP HU or MP burrs. The SSP Cast seems geared toward light roasts but with good balance. Fiorenzato Pietro with dual burr sets and stand Yes, I’m comfortable using a hand grinder. The Pro burr set for filter seems to do everything I’d need for Nordic roast filter, however I’ve not sen any user posts regarding the espresso burr set with any roast level. If anyone here can advise about this I should greatly appreciate your help. The cost as configured above is about $700 so still reasonable, and the footprint is the smallest of any additional grinder on my list. My decision tree continues with four 64mm grinders & burr sets, however I will not post these now because if any of the above fit my use case, there is no reason to spend more on gear, especially gear with larger footprints than the above. I hope to obtain some informed guidance and arrive at a decision with your help. Thanks for any clarity you may offer.

https://youtu.be/F_lPebBqVd4?si=pNaGjSw85oL70WrA

Burrs & Grinder for Nordic Light Espresso

Cuprajake

There is nothing wrong with the stock mazzer burr in the duo. This works well with light roast.

Other burrs just give a slightly different taste

All this burr talk has an over emphasized opinion, and unless you have 5 grinders in a row you are not tasting the difference. You will be happy with any large flat.

You will be hard pressed to find many who will actually say they wasted £400 on burrs like I did buying SSP hu.

For the money you spend there are better ways to spend that £400 to change brew, spend £100 on a few types of baskets and £300 on some really nice beans.

There’s a current thread on hb were a well respected member says there’s not difference between a niche zero and a kafatec conical.

BrendaninBrooklyn

Cuprajake Thanks Jake, I was hoping this would be the case; just being thorough since as I mentioned, so many posts emphasize medium & dark roasts with these burrs. I greatly prefer spending on beans to spending on gear ;-)

Cuprajake

MWJB

Cuprajake If people believe the Alternative Brewing video was carried robustly, I’m not sure what it tells us other than the SSP Cast DLC, Ditting inspired burrs being the best all rounders (though no reason to think that isn’t plausible).

There is clear misunderstanding of uni/bimodal grinds, then the presenter advises targeting burr material - despite DLC burrs covering the majoriy of the range within each of filter, espresso & milky tests?

It takes me days to get a reasonable comparison level between completely different grinders for one brew method, so I don’t know how someone can do 3 different recipes over 7 burrs in one go.

Cuprajake

This shows how close it can be

BrendaninBrooklyn

Cuprajake As you are aware, there is so much talk about newer and different burr geometries and their suitability for differing roast levels. From the outside, it’s difficult to separate fact from fancy, thus my post.

Cuprajake

And this series just shows how personal taste is.

My advice is don’t over think it, you will tie yourself in knots like I did, stress out over what could/should be.

I’ve had some great coffee out of the duo with Tim wendleboe, esp

Cuprajake

Yeah, and don’t get me wrong each burr will react differently to give a different taste, but different isn’t better, only different.

In an ideal world you would get to try each burr and decide what you like

Personally I’ve found there is a massive inconsistency in light roast here in the UK, I’ve had some really bad roasts, I used to get the dog and hat subscription to broaden my search but far to many ‘light’ roasts were just grassy messes. Instead I move to spending a bit more ordering the likes of Tim wendleboe knowing I would get a good roast every time.

BrendaninBrooklyn

Cuprajake We are in agreement – almost. While different is just different, in that “ideal world” my wife would have me committed ;-) Clearly Tom P and I are married to different women.

I also agree, there are many poor light roasts lurking out there. Here I plan to mail-order Tim W, and can get Sey and La Cabra locally. These are enough for our purpose. Light is really just an experiment for us. We may wind up preferring medium – dark but we are keeping our minds open until we try a number of them multiple times.

tompoland

BrendaninBrooklyn Clearly Tom P and I are married to different women.

I checked and can now confirm that this is indeed correct.

My vote is unquestionably the Duo, but for Nordic light, with SSP Espresso burrs.

Ideally order the Duo with both burr carriers and if you don’t drink filter (or you have another grinder for it) then you can have one burr carrier with the stock Mazzer 151B burrs and the other burr carrier can house the SSP. Month on, month off, or whatever cycle works for you.

But definitely start with the stock burrs which for me, produce an inoffensive, smooth, well balance espresso. Personally it’s not a burr set that excites me (the stock 151F filter burrs do) but there are probably millions of people who love them and you may very well decide that they do the job admirably for your taste buds.

(Bear in mind that using non stock burrs will void your warranty.)

BrendaninBrooklyn

tompoland Tom, thank you. I will be ordering the Duo with both stock burrs, and I realize that when we live with it long enough it will not be difficult here in NYC to find someone who has installed SSP burrs in theirs and compare then.

The ’Net is full of modern burrs vs traditional burrs; Northern European burrs vs Southern European burrs and from the outside it is confusing to someone not especially gear-oriented, and in fact minimalistic like me. I figured I’d get sane, informed advice here and can now stop thinking about it..

Having said that, I know you are preparing for the Burrathon and I am wondering if you will be including two newer 64mm burrs:

Mazzer 1200D
Option O Mizzen 64OM

This is just idle, completist curiosity on my part. Thanks again.

LMSC

BrendaninBrooklyn Although almost every user comment and review I’ve read talks about this as optimum with medium and dark roast

Leaving the conical for medium / dark and flat for lighter roasts aside, some of the Duo users here primarily drink light roasts. The Duo stock for espresso serves very well, IMO.

I have had a few bags from Tim Wendelboe. I liked it very much on the Duo. Of course, I have neither tried SSP’s nor plan to get one. Can’t comment how they would compare.

If you are keen, you might read this at your leisure.

https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/1851-coffee-with-duo/287

Edit:

Since you plan to order the Duo, I would start with the stocks for the Nordics and see if they suit your taste. 😊

BrendaninBrooklyn

LMSC Thank you for your sensible advice, and for posting that link. I’d read that thread previously and for some reason could not find it yesterday. I will order the Duo with stock burrs as noted above, but I shall re-read this thread regardless. Undoubtedly, a good antidote for the clamor and confusion of modern burrs vs traditional burrs; Northern European burrs vs Southern European burrs discussions and claims.

tompoland

BrendaninBrooklyn Mazzer 1200D
Option O Mizzen 64OM

Yes to Mizzen although I haven’t checked the model number. Kind of a compromise burr, at least for my taste buds. Good at espresso and filter but not great at either.

Have not heard of the Mazzer, thanks for the heads up, I’ll investigate. Any chance you have a link?

Cuprajake

id try stock burrs and good beans, then when you feel like buying a new grinder fit ssp

BrendaninBrooklyn

Cuprajake Jake, I can’t imagine us wanting a different grinder. The Duo is just so well thought through. A third burr carrier is a possibility although based on comments here and re-calling a previous conversation with Dave, not a high probability. We would need to be bowled over by taste differences to bother, and that seems unlikely.

Cuprajake

MWJB so you got my point then 😉

BrendaninBrooklyn

tompoland Tom, it’s found on this page midway down under “choose your favorite coffee taste”

Reads like a “Northern European” style burr; something new for them. I’m inclined to take the new grinder and this burr seriously because it is an important product launch for the firm; the first design from the family heir, who will also be CEO at some point. It will be available separately from the grinder

https://www.mazzer.com/en/product/philos/

Somewhere in these many threads I saw you said “…And that’s the challenge that I see for the omni burrs. OK at both espresso and filter but brilliant at neither. ” There has been so much buzz about this type as you know. I am greatly looking forward to your Burrathon providing some perspective on the topic.

pjw

For a context, Tim Wendelboe, the godfather of the LIght Nordic roast. In his espresso bar for years he was using… Mazzer Robur. Not an obvious choice to run conicals for such roast. But it just shows you, burrs are just a tool and he was able to play with other variables like dose, yield, grind size, temperature to obtain desired outcome.

Now they switched to Mahlkonig I belie (not been here for a while but seen on photos -

Looks like E80 BGW.

On his desk, when doing cupping I see Bentwood 63.

BrendaninBrooklyn

pjw Thanks for posting this. It absolutely settles the question for me ;-)