Today my bottomless/naked portafilter for my Sage dual boiler should be arriving. Although the basket Sage provides looks okay I thought as I had a couple of quid for my birthday recently I'd treat myself to a new 18-20g basket as I did for my Gaggia when I had it. Of course, the likely contenders are VST or IMS although there may well be others out there I am unaware of. So, I looked to see if there were any comparison reviews and although I found a few, there didn't seem to be a massive difference between them in what they produced flavour wise, well none that my taste buds would be able to distinguish. However, there was one very big difference… price! The VST baskets were often well over double compared to the IMS. So, knowing there are many of you real coffee sages on here who know far better than me, I thought I'd ask you what you think.

@"Pompeyexile"#p4278 Many thanks for asking this question, I don't know the answer personally but would really like to know!

I tried the IMS basket a few years ago, I found it inconsistent ( it could have been me or the prep) I have always used the VST since then and been very pleased / happy with use and performance. Some members say they are difficult to use, I do not find this. The only exception I found was the 15 gm very difficult to get right, quite a few other members found the same. I use the 18 gm basket and dose 18 / 19 gms and find good consistency, if it does not come through the basket evenly and uniformly it is down to my prep.

> @"Elcarajillo"#p4283 Some members say they are difficult to use, I do not find this. The only exception I found was the 15 gm very difficult to get right, quite a few other members found the same. I use the [15g IMS E&B basket](https://www.bluestarcoffee.eu/eb--competition-flat--double-filter-basket-10876-p.asp) and I don't find it difficult to use. I Never tried a VST but from reading quite a lot I got the feeling it's a Nikon/Canon sort of debate - some swear by one and some by the other. I think here (well, in the other forum at least) there were more VST fans, but I have seen places where it was the opposite. I may well be mistaken, but my understanding is that both are good, the differences are small and it's mainly a personal preference. My own personal preference is the cheaper one, which when I bought it was half the price of the other. I know that some people are the opposite in that respect as well. ;-)

@"Doram"#p4293 I have both VST and IMS….I just use whichever is in the naked portafilter…The VST I have is slightly more challenging to use…but with a good grinder, won't give you any problems.

@"Doram"#p4293 Another vote for the IMS basket B702th24.5 if planning on 15-16g dosing. The 15g VST is too fickle for me as a daily driver, whereas the IMS seems a lot more tolerant of prep. I've not really looked at the 18g upwards baskets where the VST seems to be highly regarded. The IMS (this spec at least) has a rounded base with the holes grouped more centrally, when compared to the VST one which has a straight(ish) base and the holes come closer to the edge. Mentally at least this is what I have attributed the reduced reliance on puck prep for the IMS.

Where is everyone getting 54mm VST baskets from, please?

> @"coffeeb"#p4314 The IMS (this spec at least) has a rounded base with the holes grouped more centrally, when compared to the VST one which has a straight(ish) base and the holes come closer to the edge. Mentally at least this is what I have attributed the reduced reliance on puck prep for the IMS. If you look at the link to the [IMS E&B Lab](https://www.bluestarcoffee.eu/eb--competition-flat--double-filter-basket-10876-p.asp) that I have you will notice that the bottom is flat. I bought it because the normal IMS basket was out of stock and the guy on the chat said it was "the IMS version of the VST…" It also has more holes than the standard IMS. I don't know what the difference is between the IMS standard and the IMS E&B in use because I only use the E&B. I do have a standard 18g IMS as well, but I never use it. That is because 1) I tend to use 15g doses; and 2) The "15g" basket I have (IMS calls it H22, because it's 22mm deep) can take much more than 15g of the coffee I am using. It almost seems too big for 15g. I gather I can easily put 17 or 18 grams in it.

The LSOL brigade prefer VST, because with a high precision grinder (think Kafatek, Weber etc) and precision prep, you can get higher extractions which suit the roast better. Doesn’t matter so much if your grinder isn’t up to it, or you like darker roasts. Lots of YouTube stuff on this if you have the time! It’s quite interesting.

@"Doram"#p4335 Apologies, I wasn't at all clear with that description. I was referring to the 'corner' at the perimeter of the base rather than the actual base. If you take a look at the IMS Competition catalogue, p15 (B702TH) is the shape I'm referring to, whereas p17 (B702TFH) is more like the VST 15g basket I have. [IMS-Competition-Catalogue.pdf (imsfiltri.com)](http://www.imsfiltri.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/IMS-Competition-Catalogue.pdf) I bought the B702TH as I was getting reasonable (read: forgiving compared to the VST!) results with the stock Lelit basket and this was basically a simple upgrade to one with controlled hole sizes.

> @"coffeeb"#p4357 Apologies, I wasn’t at all clear with that description. I was referring to the ‘corner’ at the perimeter of the base rather than the actual base. > > If you take a look at the IMS Competition catalogue, p15 (B702TH) is the shape I’m referring to, whereas p17 (B702TFH) is more like the VST 15g basket I have. > > [IMS-Competition-Catalogue.pdf (imsfiltri.com)](http://www.imsfiltri.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/IMS-Competition-Catalogue.pdf) > > I bought the B702TH as I was getting reasonable (read: forgiving compared to the VST!) results with the stock Lelit basket and this was basically a simple upgrade to one with controlled hole sizes. Yep, I understand. So if you look at page 10 in the catalogue, you see that they have baskets with a concave or a flat bottom: [upl-image-preview url=//i.imgur.com/CMdiCvD.png] My IMS E&B 15g has a flat bottom (below left), and my standard IMS 18g has the concave bottom (below right). You can also see that in the E&B the holes reach closer to the edge. What difference all this make? I haven't got the foggiest idea 😂. : [URL=https://i.imgur.com/56FeThQ.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/56FeThQ.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Basket Case

PortafilterProcrastinator

@HVL87 @dutchy101 Found it! I think Basket Case is an apt description!

So, VST could be slightly trickier to use than IMS, but can have benefits depending on the type of beans you are using. You also need a ‘decent’ grinder - is a Niche decent enough? I don’t know. And good prep, but then that seems to be a given.

IMS look to have a larger variance in dose range (which I have read elsewhere too). So VST could be more reliable if your dosing consistently?

And now the additional complication of convex or flat bottomed!!

HVL87

PortafilterProcrastinator Found it! I think Basket Case is an apt description!

Great thread title!

PortafilterProcrastinator So, VST could be slightly trickier to use than IMS, but can have benefits depending on the type of beans you are using. You also need a ‘decent’ grinder - is a Niche decent enough? I don’t know. And good prep, but then that seems to be a given.

The VST is really not that challenging to use wit half decent puck prep. If you want something “easier” use the stock basket. Once you are confident move to a VST. With an 18g VST you don’t have to worry about a large dose range or choosing between flat and convex. Keep it simple.

PortafilterProcrastinator My concern comes largely from the tamper side of things - do I need a slightly wider tamper if I have a ridgeless basket? I don’t want to buy an expensive tamper based on the ridged stock basket, only to find it isn’t wide enough with an after-market ridgeless version.

Wider than what - 58.5mm? A Bravo tamper (58.5mm) fits a ridgeless VST perfectly fine. Even 58.4mm is fine.

@Rob1 what do you use?

dutchy101

Niche is certainly good enough. I’m going to keep hold of both the 18-22g IMS and the 18g VST baskets - gives me some good ranges to play with. The puck screen will also be used which will help close up some of the headspace for me if I try 18 / 19 /20g doses in the IMS

Ernie1

Maybe a controversial opinion but one of the biggest improvements I made to my coffee routine was to chuck out the VST basket.

A certain YouTuber has a lot to answer for with poor espresso beginners who bin their standard baskets in favour of a VST before they’ve pulled their first shot and struggle endlessly with them.

I don’t disagree that with careful and consistent prep you’ll get a better result, but when I was using my old Silvia I preferred the leniency of the standard basket.

One thing I’m not sure though is how the basket that came with my Bianca compares. It says IMS on the side so I’m unsure if that is in the same league as the VST… in which case much of my above comment is useless as I haven’t had any problems with using this one.

PortafilterProcrastinator

Ernie1 I think you talk a lot of sense - the stock basket should be used for experience.

My concern comes largely from the tamper side of things - do I need a slightly wider tamper if I have a ridgeless basket? I don’t want to buy an expensive tamper based on the ridged stock basket, only to find it isn’t wide enough with an after-market ridgeless version.

I think one of the big selling points of the Bianca (or Lelit in general?) is that they come with IMS baskets as standard - so you’re already a big step ahead of most.

dutchy101

Part of the reason I opted for the IMS first and over the VST was that I saw DaveC mention it was more forgiving, which appealed to me. That and it being half the price too

MediumRoastSteam

PortafilterProcrastinator do I need a slightly wider tamper if I have a ridgeless basket

Not that I know of.

Rob1

I use a 58.55 Torr. There are plenty of options out there, Bravo, the Force, Decent Espresso tamper, Kafatek etc. At this point there are even aliexpress tampers in the same style of those above. You’ve also go the push style ones or just standard tampers, fancy or not.

You don’t need a bigger are smaller one because of the ridge. The tamper should fit the basket snugly and not leave coffee on the sides of the basket.

dutchy101

So I now have both my IMS ridgeless basket and the VST ridgeless. I have noticed how much tighter fitting the portafilter is especially with the VST basket. Shots haven’t been great with either basket thus far. Bit more of a learning curve ahead

HVL87

dutchy101

I remember noticing the same thing when locking in the PF but it shouldn’t be too tight? Not a problem.

dutchy101 Shots haven’t been great with either basket thus far. Bit more of a learning curve ahead

What roast level are your beans and how does taste compare as opposed to watching the bottomless extraction. Are you using WDT?

Does the puck knock out cleaner or are you using a puck screen?

dutchy101

Using a puck screen. Pucks are great but it’s like I’m dialling in the beans all over again. Shots are running fast on the VST basket 18g in 42 out in around 22 seconds. Just need to get to grips with it I think. Tighten the grind

I am doing WDT, but considering WD40 to get the portafilter into the group.

HVL87

dutchy101 you do need to grind finer. There are more holes covering a larger surface area of the basket.

I’m surprised it’s so tight with the VST? Not sure about WD40..maybe others can advise.

dutchy101

Was only kidding re WD40 no way I’m using that.

Think it’s possibly the spring in the portafilter needs breaking in further.

Will try grinding finer tomorrow- thanks.

Done the classic mistake of changing about 5 variables at once

HVL87

dutchy101 Was only kidding re WD40 no way I’m using that.

I was trying to be polite 😄

dutchy101 Think it’s possibly the spring in the portafilter needs breaking in further.

You might be right.

What other variables have you changed?

dutchy101

Puck screen, VST basket, IMS basket, dose, new tamper, dosing funnel and WDT in basket…..

Considering some of the other posts / questions I’ve been asking recently I can see the WD40 being perfectly plausible, lol

dutchy101

Still not quite got to grips with the VST basket - shots still running a little fast at 18g so going to need to keep grinding finer. Also moving onto new beans so probably back to square one again.

Somehow my milk frothing game also seems to have gone backwards lol

Ernie1

dutchy101

Just so you don’t have to waste the volume of beans that I did…

I’d highly recommend getting used to the VST basket with a large quantity of ‘cheap’ beans.

Trying to learn consistently perfect VST prep whilst dialling in a new bean is a recipe for disappointment and wastage.

dutchy101

Yes I’m considering switching back to the IMS for the time being or evem the stock whilst I’m getting used to everything

Alexvs

dutchy101 Only thing I’m not liking about the stock so far is the ridge as after tamping, it seems to hold a little grind in there and then seems like a wetter rim where the water sat post shot. Think an IMS will be on my next purchase list.

HVL87

dutchy101 you just need to grind finer. What grinder are you using?

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