As promised, the following are my brief personal perspectives on the pros and cons of the Decent, after 5 months use. PROS * Ability to adjust virtually all elements of the espresso making process (coffee input and output weight or volume, pressure, flow, time, temperature) * Ability to adjust the above, by espresso making stage, literally second by second * Ability to automate all of the above within “profiles” that you can create and name. * Ability to repeat the same profile, again and again. * Multiple preset profiles * Ability to import other people’s profiles * Ability to export (share) your profiles * Ability to save the settings for and profile of any shot, and use it again later at any time. You can readily access and use this history. * Ability to link the above to a full description of the shot, through Describe Your Espresso (DYE) * Ability to reuse and tweak and save (as a new description) prior DYEs * Ability to mimic other machines * Full automation or none, whatever you want * Rapid heat up * Instant steaming * Ability to adjust steam temperature, pressure and flow * Nice long steam wand * Push button operation, using buttons on either the grouphead or the screen * Many accessories * Multiple warranty options * Extendable warranty (for a price) * Rapid response to issues * Excellent support * Great service * Ability to continuously upgrade your machine, to the latest version * An organization that continuously innovates and upgrades its products * Small footprint/form factor * Ability to fit it/sink it into your * Great Decent owner community support * I probably forgot 20 items. Feel free to add/supplement CONS * A tablet interface. I look at screens all day, at my workstation and on the various devices I use. It would be nice to just enjoy an espresso and not look at a screen. * While you can just turn it on and push the espresso button to pour an espresso (it will use your last preset), one tends to look at and check the screen. * Too much brain power/thinking required * Long long learning curve * It can be complicated * Defined not a hands on, pour by touch machine * Poor quality tablet * Feel free to add any Would I buy it again? 100%!

Pros: - support from community/manufacturer and relatively easy self repair. - stop by weight is amazing. Cons: - occasional glitching, probably 1 in 60 shots go awry for unknown reasons. - water tray is divisive, personally I really like it. Although wouldn’t mind a cover. - no ability to steam at the same time as pulling a shot.

Never been one to steam and pull a shot, even when I had dual boilers so that's not a thing for me 😂

I should mention that I did have some initial setup challenges. I had challenges maintaining a Bluetooth connection between the Skale and the tablet. I upgraded the tablet and (with other tweaks) solved the issue. But I had fantastic support from both Decent and the Decent community, to solve it. So I will add great Decent owner community access and support as a pro (on Diaspora, DecentForum Discord, Facebook) and yes here. And (in my view) poor quality tablet as a con.

@"Cuprajake"#p61750 funny, I was just thinking exactly the same thing yesterday. I guess that we are just not multi taskers. I rarely use the steamer on the Decent but not for that reason. For the one milk coffee I have per day I use the Nanofoamer Pro which make exceptional silky foamy milk.

No, I've never got it, People will spend a solid 5 mins prepping a puck, then need to speed up the process steaming and pulling a shot at once, Commercial I totally understand

@"Cuprajake"#p61763 Have to agree here. I've had 4 dual boilers now. I just like the ability to Brew or steam without considering anything. I know they are both there and ready to go. I would go so far as to say I have never actually done both at the same time. Especially as I usually brew direct in to my steamed milk, would make it difficult!! My biggest cons for the decent, having never owned one, but have seen in action and commented to Ian he was selling the wrong machine..... Tablet makes the whole thing ugly ( my wife's words not mine!!) The water trays. Both their design, materials and the fact they are open. not saying our kitchen is dusty though. I could overlook the lack of actual buttons and levers maybe!! ☕

@"Adrianmsmith"#p61764 it has a lever.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9rtYvC6l3U

Good list! I would add a couple of things I like/dislike: Things I like: * The small size and weight, combined with the flight case makes it easy to transport and travel with. * I like how my wife can make a great cup of coffee just by pressing a button, and I still get to do as much tweaking and adjusting of profiles as I like without interfering with this ease of use. * I **love** gravimetric brewing. * I really like how the machine can stop the steam automatically after a set time, and can calculate when the milk steaming needs to stop in order to heat the milk to a specific temperature, so it is always the temperature you want. * Brewing filter coffee is cool given my complete lack of skill with pour over methods. Nice to have a ‘fire and forget’ option! Things I dislike: * Being a native iPhone user, I initially struggled getting to grips with the android tablet. I have to say though this is mainly due to my idiocy, and I think it works well. There is an iPad app available but it is third party and not yet as fully featured. * I’m not convinced of the need for the grouphead handle. It’s unnecessary when locking in the portafilter (the machine doesn’t move), and I’d like some sort of blanking screw to cover the hole left when you remove it. But I as it’s a standard M10 it should be pretty easy to find, I’m just lazy!

Decent After 5 Months Use

HarveyMushman

I love being able to steam while the shot is pulling. Not sure it would be a deal breaker for me but it’s definitely useful.

The Mrs and I will often both have a flat white so I’ll steam while the second shot is extracting. Mainly just so the first espresso doesn’t lose too much temperature.

But then I also don’t bother much with puck prep so I suppose you could say my process mirrors more of a commercial environment.

HarveyMushman

I definitely enjoy watching the Decent from the sidelines. The tech fascinates me and it’s great to see how closely involved and passionate the owner is. Even though it’s not a machine I’d consider (it would be wasted on me), I think it’s a really cool piece of kit.

Cuprajake

i wouldn’t say its wasted, bar the tech you can use it with out a tablet, but id not want to. you can actually adjust pressure and flow on the fly

there not the classical look by any means, but they have the ability to save a shot, but if im honest, i cant remember the time i needed that, once you’re this far down the rabbit hole, you kinda know how to dial in

DavecUK

As far as steaming whilst the shot is pulling, the only practical machine for this, as far as I am concerned is the Evo2. The pressure release allows me to get to a reliable weight, no need to move the cups away or anything else. Steaming is completely independent of brew temps, autofill of steam boiler affects nothing. This means I can 100% concentrate on steaming.

That said, in the home environment it’s not usually necessary….unless of course you have visitors…then it can be handy and all the drinks are ready faster/hotter.

HarveyMushman

DavecUK As far as steaming whilst the shot is pulling, the only practical machine for this, as far as I am concerned is the Evo2.

Really? I’ve found most DB’s I’ve had are more than capable.

Works fine on the LM too:

Cuprajake

would need a lot of guests though ahah,

even at xmas and times with 6 or so coffees to make ive never done the shot and steam together, the massive boiler on the evo does mean you can steam double the milk, to make two drinks at a time.

DavecUK

HarveyMushman Really? I’ve found most DB’s I’ve had are more than capable.

All capable, but I used the word “practical” for a good reason.

MediumRoastSteam

Even the Elizabeth can steam + pull a shot at the same time. Granted might not be the most optimal due to the small boiler size, but… I can’t see why the Minima isn’t capable of doing that, or the Synchronika or the Profitec 700, or any “old school” HX machine even.

HarveyMushman

DavecUK

Apologies I didn’t read it properly but still unsure what you mean by practical.

As seen in my little vid, steaming takes less time than the shot. I have to stop it regardless so may as well do something else while standing around waiting for the shot to finish.

Igm45

DavecUK gravimetrics means that it would also be practical on the decent.
If it had the ability to do both simultaneously you could start the shot, forget about it (as it’ll stop itself) and then steam the milk.

HarveyMushman

I’m surprised by the lack of love for steaming while extracting. For a drink that cools incredibly quickly, those 20 seconds or so you can save steaming at the same time make quite a difference.

Even just with 2 drinks, the first will be much cooler and the cream dissipated much more if you’ve left steaming until the end. I appreciate we’re not talking a night/day difference but as above, if you’re standing around doing nothing for ~30 seconds, may as well steam milk.

JammyDodger

HarveyMushman I’m surprised by the lack of love for steaming while extracting

I tend to use the time the shot is extracting reviewing the graph and tweaking if needed with the manual flow control. If I do just let it run, I’ll go and grab some milk from the fridge, weigh out 150ml or so and by the time the milk’s back in the fridge the shot has finished. I don’t think I’d be any faster trying to steam at the same time!

DavecUK

Igm45 gravimetrics means that it would also be practical on the decent.
If it had the ability to do both simultaneously you could start the shot, forget about it (as it’ll stop itself) and then steam the milk.

But you can’t steam during the shot can you….unless something has changed/changes?

HarveyMushman

Yeah the gravimetric is a great feature.

Volumetric/Gravimetric is something I’d love to see on more home machines.

delta76

DavecUK no, it is a single boiler so unless they have defied physics, it would not be able to brew and steam at the same time

Igm45

DavecUK no, it’s more an elaboration on why I think the lack of ability is a downside to the decent.
Just evidencing the use case it would have.

Cuprajake

no boiler either
Giphy - Great Gatsby Movie GIF by Sony

never had volmetric, nearly did im sure the bezzera duo matrix had that,

HarveyMushman

Is a rotary pump capable of the working with the way a Decent controls flow etc?

I know a rotary pump is a larger component but I wondered if a rotary Decent is possible?

Redla

JHCCoffee Too much brain power/thinking required

Not sure on that, as soon as I have the parameters dialled in, it does it all for me

Cuprajake

Rotary and gear pump is a no go, in an interview John said that vibe pumps reacted quickest to the voltage, letting them get the desired flow.

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