Great idea from @"JHCCoffee"#639 so ill start: This is a coffee from foundry roasters [URL=https://i.imgur.com/1irseeR.jpeg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/1irseeR.jpeg[/IMG][/URL] Bean is on the left [URL=https://i.imgur.com/asbmYjU.jpeg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/asbmYjU.jpeg[/IMG][/URL] This is the shot data [URL=https://i.imgur.com/sjeBipf.jpeg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/sjeBipf.jpeg[/IMG][/URL] 17g in 42g out https://visualizer.coffee/shots/3a38c465-4461-4dac-8e71-4328281ead21 And the video of the shot. https://youtu.be/jdufXQnYuIE?si=08m-CZeCSKaHol84 Needs to go a tad coarser, was set at 4 on the duo, will try 5. I remember @"DavecUK"#1 saying the marks on the duo indicated 3 microns, but can't remember how that translates to seconds in a shot.

Great minds think alike. I’ll copy the text from my just started post to here, and then delete it.

This is what I just posted in my other thread: There seems to be an increasing number of CoffeeTime members owning Decent machines. If you are interested, this could become a thread to share our respective knowledge (or in my case learning curve) on finding and dialing in profiles for our specific beans and tastes. It would be great if we could build some experiences right here on CoffeeTime, which is (by design) a friendly and risk free place to make mistakes and help each other out. So feel free to post images of your shot graphs or Visualizer links. Some folks also post images of the settings page for each step of their profile. Along with what was good or not so good about the profile and the shot (and the resultant taste). We can then help each other dial in great tasting espresso. Or for me: decaf espresso 😁

I’m still learning, so for what it’s worth, the beans look quite light, and as you mentioned taste sour. If that is not the fruity sour flavour often found in lighter beans, then the under extraction might be solved by increasing the temperature and/or increasing the pressure. I have a question: If you grind coarser (as you suggest) would that also decrease the sourness by using flow to extract more? It’s always (for me) a challenge to determine when to grind finer or coarser to get more extraction. Coarser can extract more through greater flow. Finer can extract more though finer particle size. With the Decent you can also increase pressure or flow or temperature to extract more. Ofcourse longer brew ratios also extract more. How does one determine which route to go, especially on the grind size front? PS I’ve been receiving fairly consistent advice to try to keep my flow in the 1 to 2 ml per second range. But then I haven’t tried turbo shots yet.

@"JHCCoffee"#p61860 sorry should note, the sour were not these beans, they were a medium Brazilian, using a different profile,

> @"JHCCoffee"#p61860 If you grind coarser (as you suggest) would that also decrease the sourness by using flow to extract more? Without disturbing the intent of the thread, I would distinguish between acidity and sourness. I would peg acidity to the nature of notes. Some examples are stone fruits, grapes, melon, which are typically low acidic fruits, IMO. They give a balanced taste / sensation on the tongue. Pineapples and oranges increase the acidity and sweetness, the sensation on the tongue is elevated to, say, medium level. Berries, red fruits, lemons and lime will take the acidity (higher) and sensation to another level higher, although they also bring sweetness to mute the acidity somewhat, but not enough to balance it completely. When there is a brew malfunction - grind size, temperature, puck preparation, etc., you may get either a bitter taste (unpleasant or medicine like taste) or a sour taste. This must be rectified. The sourness is always mouth puckering for me, or see an elevated acidity if it shouldn’t be there (notes / descriptions on the bag). I think it is important to keep this distinction. Just my simple humble opinion. PS: It is about time we have a dedicated Decent thread. So, well done! 👏

> I have a question: If you grind coarser, would that also decrease the sourness by using flow to extract more? It’s always (for me) a challenge to determine when to grind finer or coarser to get more extraction. Coarser can extract more through greater flow. Finer can extract more though finer particle size. With the Decent you can also increase pressure or flow or temperature to extract more. Ofcourse longer brew ratios also extract more. How does one determine which route to go, especially on the grind size front? Thoughts anyone?

Just have to try it and see. https://visualizer.coffee/shots/e424f8c6-3b77-4fbb-b5f9-bcfe48dc1e30 [URL=https://i.imgur.com/BvBwGKJ.png][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/BvBwGKJ.png[/IMG][/URL] This was going from 4 to 5 on the duo, tad quick

Very interesting thread thanks @"JHCCoffee"#639 and @"Cuprajake"#144 I don't use visulalizer much so won't be making and worthwhile contributions but following with interest.

> @"JHCCoffee"#p61860 I have a question: If you grind coarser (as you suggest) would that also decrease the sourness by using flow to extract more? It’s always (for me) a challenge to determine when to grind finer or coarser to get more extraction. A question, inquiry (interested to know the thought behind your question): are you after an increase in extraction or something that you can taste different in the cup e.g. more sweetness, better balance?

> @"tompoland"#p61929 A question, *inquiry (interested to know the thought behind your question): are you after an increase in extraction or something that you can taste different in the cup e.g. more sweetness, better balance?* > > There are times when I want to extract more strength and also more flavour nuances, while retaining body. I want it all: body, strength and lingering flavour nuances. With decaf. In a shot and in a milk drink. > > Increasing the brew ratio sometimes brings out flavour nuances by increasing extraction, but at the expense of strength and body. Conversely shorter brew ratios can get you more body but not always strength and generally not flavour nuances. > > So extraction often needs to be increased to get those flavour nuances out. Through the usual refinements: increased temperature and longer contact time. Longer contact time also gets you more strength. Greater pressure can also extract more, but would result in faster flow and thereby shorter contact time, so I don’t think I should bump the pressure. > > So how do I get more strength and lingering flavour into a shot? Increase the contact time, which means slower flow if you want to keep the same brew ratio? I think so. > > Slower flow is achieved by reducing pressure or creating greater puck resistance (which gets you greater pressure unless you machine reduce it, which I can with the Decent). > > So I am thinking that I can get closer to what I want with a brew ratio that is neither too short or long (say in the 1.5 to 2.0 range); I am guessing that 1.0 to 1.5 just won’t extract sufficient flavour nuances. Body will be great but not necessarily flavour. > > And profile a slower flow (say 1.0 ml per second average ). So a 15g dose in my 14g EPHQ14 normal flow basket at a say 1.8 ratio would be 27 out, which would run 27 seconds. Maybe I even go for 0.8 ml/sec average, with the usual initial spike then tailing down to 1.2 ml/sec then down to 0.8 ml/sec. With a say 10 second bloom. Might run longer than 28 seconds as a result. > > Does this slower flow make sense? Or do I go turbo shot (fast flow to extract)? > > Interestingly I poured a decaf shot with using a modified adaptive profile that resulted in a jagged pressure and flow profile for about 10 seconds before settling, due to a low limiter setting (0.6 ml) and insufficient puck resistance. It tasted great; a friend named Luca on my pouring better decaf thread on Diaspora thinks it’s because I created “turbulence” in the bed, which actually had a positive effect. > > [URL=https://i.imgur.com/itRaNYW.jpeg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/itRaNYW.jpeg[/IMG][/URL] > > [URL=https://i.imgur.com/8ATBm7j.jpeg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/8ATBm7j.jpeg[/IMG][/URL] > >

Decent Profiles and Dialing In

Cuprajake

@LMSC
this is a quick comparison of the decent with a mimic profile I made

https://visualizer.coffee/shots/cc8612b6-dbc1-4b6b-8890-ba57a39dbab3

17g in 43g out both ground on the niche zero at 15

only difference is the basket. evo2 was ims competition, the decent is the 18g decent basket

both shots very very similar

Evo temps group 92 boiler 98
decent temp 87

JammyDodger

Cuprajake both shots very very similar

Really interesting to have someone actually compare the two shots side by side - nice one!

Cuprajake

Been playing

This was my fake Evo profile

Also tried the allongé - helps to remember to change your stop at weight ratio instead of 1:5 I did 1:8 was more water than coffee 😂 think dolce gusto hahaha

Cuprajake

Just tried this profile

https://visualizer.coffee/shots/5415a18c-3d51-4607-a7fe-59acc4fbe643

https://visualizer.coffee/shots/17a36904-0c6e-4e3e-9f83-1a414e82683b

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