Help with my extraction?

MuddyOne

Hi all

I’m a little bit confused here, just upgraded from barista touch to profitec drive. I’m using 22g vst basket with bottomless porta. Omni roast now . Got 22g in 66ml out in 30s the pressure jumped to over 10 and the overall shot feels bit over extracted with thin dark rough crema. I’m doing puck prep wdt .

I’m already getting enough liquid if I grind coarser, but pressure was high and feels over extracted.

Cuprajake

If pressure is jumping then you’re too fine, alter grind or dose, or change baskets

MuddyOne

Cuprajake

I’m struggling a little bit here. Changed the basket to 18g , I’m still over extracting with a lot of liquid but pressure was around 8 bars.

Also if we are here already, have two small questions I won’t be starting new thread.

Is that acceptable level for my machine or should I level it more?

These three baskets are 22g vst, 18g that came with naked ports and 18g that came with the machine , but vst and middle one looks identical in size. Was that a mistake when they classified it as 18g? ( I used third one that came with my machine what I describe above)

https://ibb.co/YNr2ZJw

https://ibb.co/5Tq9MWG

https://ibb.co/QfNNrrH

Cuprajake

So you can finer now if you want to hit 9 bars.

What are the beans?

22g is a large dose

In terms of the level of legs are non adjustable, you can buy stick on rubber/foam pads

Vst baskets flow quicker and extract more than the usual stock baskets

Personally always found vst to be more finiky and less forgiving of bad puck prep, why I’ve always used a ims of some sorts, usually the competition baskets.

MuddyOne

Cuprajake

They are medium roast two weeks old. Never had so large under extraction. 18g in 100 ml out with 8 bars I’ll do finer tomorrow but that just seems like a large gap.

JHCCoffee

MuddyOne They are medium roast two weeks old. Never had so large under extraction. 18g in 100 ml out with 8 bars I’ll do finer tomorrow but that just seems like a large gap.

Been in your shoes many years ago. Happy to help. Also suggest that you do some reading and watching. Barista Hustle has a good instructional series.

If your coffee has been open for 2 weeks, its now stale. Lots of different approaches to preserving coffee on this board (search storing coffee), but many lightly vacuum pack and freeze their beans; I freeze 3 day lots, unfreeze them use.

For coffee dosing, stay within 5% to at most 10% of your basket size rating. I’d suggest sticking to your basket size rating, until you know enough to make a rational decision on change the dose. Then Lock in that dose, for now

Read up on brew ratios. 1:2 (such as 18 in, 36 out in an 18g basket) is a good starting point.

While I don’t worry about time alot, shots typically run in the 20 second to 40 second range. I think in water and weight flow rate terms (ml/sec). 36g in 30 seconds is about 36 ml in 30 seconds which is about 1 ml per second overall.

The above will also help you begin to calibrate your grind. Think of grind like a hump. An upside down V. Too fine and you will typically be over extracted with bitter notes. Too coarse and you will typically be under extracted with sour notes. Search here or read up on “dialing in”.

Also read up on even puck distribution and tamping. I use a WDT tool with 5 X 0.35mm needles and do many small circles, deep, middle and surface. Invest in a weight calibrated self leveling tamper, if you can afford it.

Many find that using a puck screen also helps.

Mainly, use good water (I use Zero Water with 80 mg/litre sodium or potassium bicarbonate - I use baking soda) and good coffee that has a roast date, so that you know that it’s been recently roasted. I “rest” my bag for 1 week (some folks rest up to 2 weeks) then open, divide into lots, lightly vacuum pack and freeze.

So …read up more, experiment and come back with any questions when you are ready.

MuddyOne

JHCCoffee

I mean I’ve been using barista touch for five years and pulling good shots with the same compak e5 grinder.

I’m using ashbeck water, I’m doing all puck prep. What is happening is that no matter basket I use I’m getting too much liquid in my 30s shot .

Today I pulled 22g in 70ml out in 30s with nine bars of pressure , if I go any finer pressure will jump to ten bars, already heard I grind too fine then, how do I get 22g in 44ml out in 30s with nine bars is something I’m trying to learn.

DavecUK

MuddyOne Today I pulled 22g in 70ml out in 30s with nine bars of pressure , if I go any finer pressure will jump to ten bars, already heard I grind too fine then, how do I get 22g in 44ml out in 30s with nine bars is something I’m trying to learn.

The maximum pressure is direct consequence of the expansion valve setting. If the expansion valve has been set to open sufficiently at a point that limits maximum pressure to 10 bar…that’s what it will do.

If 22g in 70ml out, gives 9 bar it’s because the expansion valve isn’t opening and the coffee is coarse enough to prevent pressure building above 9 bar and bingo….you get 70ml. 22g is a also lot of coffee in the PF (too much)

You then tighten the grind to slow it down, of course the pressure rises and at/or close to the correct grind, the coffee gives enough resistance that the pressure rises to whatever the expansion valve is set to.

MuddyOne how do I get 22g in 44ml out in 30s with nine bars is something I’m trying to learn.

You have to stop worrying about the pressure being 10 bar, adjust the grind until you get the volume you want in the time you want (10 bar won’t matter)!

P.S. The other way to solve it would be to adjust the expansion valve to a max pressure of 9 bar…if it’s adjustable, then tighten the grind as I advised. Try 18g or less in the PF as well (mainly because 21g is too much and the finer grind will bring out more flavour anyway)

MuddyOne

DavecUK

Thank you, just wanted to add this actually 22g vst basket, but same thing been happening with 18g basket and 18g of coffee.

I can feel something is not right, I’m getting very watery pucks too . I don’t know what. I changed shower screen to competition ims but that can’t cause issues? If I go finer , let’s forget about pressure, you can tell coffee is over extracted ,thin dark burnt crema , anything under 60ml

DavecUK

MuddyOne Just do what I said, use an 18g basket and it has to all come good