I am thinking about home roasting, what are the benefits please and where does everyone source their greens from please? Thank you

@"Cuprajake"#p64140 have you tried any Jake, may be few benefits but why not lol and where’s the best source please?

Bought an Ikawa Home about five months ago and haven’t bought any roasted beans since (other than one for the packaging I liked!). Absolutely love it. You’ll have to take my word on this but I can quite happily roast beans to a quality on par with plenty of commercial roasts I’ve had. I will say that a big part of this is that the Ikawa is an absolute breeze to use and you can basically press one button and get great roasts if you want. Manual roasting with some of the other home roasters that require venting is probably a much less forgiving and therefore less enjoyable process for a beginner. I roast 500g a week - 250g filter and 250g espresso. Takes under an hour and I just do it next to a window in the kitchen. Big plus of the Ikawa is that it cools the beans so you can bag them pretty much immediately. Despite the 100g capacity, you can preload 100g in the hopper so it’s just one button to start the next batch. For light roasts I get about 10% loss so 85-90g yield in a 100g charge. Depending on your preference on beans you can ultimately save money although not for a while given the cost of the roaster. I was buying med-light roasts for £35-50 a kilo, and I can now roast similar for about £10-15 a kilo. I’ve actually recently roasted Ethiopian greens from the same farm as a commercial roaster I like and whilst it wasn’t quite as refined as the commercial roast, it was very good. I’ve graduated to using non-Ikawa greens and building my own profiles through cupping and trial/error lately and I really enjoy the process as a hobby. I’ve learned a lot about the roast process too and how different temperatures and rates of rise affect output. The Ikawa app makes learning easier as you’ve got a visual reference graph. Green sources can change depending on availability. Ikawa beans are great but very pricey compared to others. The bonus is for beginners you get the associated roast profiles to just load onto the machine. Micro Green Coffee Collective are also great. Redber are good for more traditional beans. Happy to answer any questions on the Ikawa if you have any.

Haha Yeah I had a sandwich box smart roaster, had greens from a few places I forget the name now, Problem is good quality greens cost more in small quantities, then you have to roast a kilo of beans, that kilo yields less due to the moisture. So I found for me, the cost of the roaster and then good greens plus messing up etc, ment that I could buy very good roasted beans for less There's a massive fun factor, and in itch I had to scratch.

> @"Cuprajake"#p64145 Problem is good quality greens cost more in small quantities, Yeah this is a consideration for sure. You’ll not get the best prices until you’re buying 5kg+ usually.

@"HarveyMushman"#p64150 where would you recommend for the best prices please? And would that just be one bean or could it be a multi buy total weight being 5kg say. I know you can keep greens for a fair time before roasting, is it best to freeze them or what please?

It is another hobby. Don't expect to save money unless you drink a lot and/or drink really expensive coffee. A good roaster which is reliable enough to roast fancy bean is > 1000 EUR and you will need to spend significant amount of time learning to roast. A very good bean is around 15-20 EUR/kg, which is around 18-25 EUR roasted (15-20% weightloss). Those are usually sold for 35-50 EUR roasted, so do your math. Undeniable benefit of home roasting is you get fresh bean when you want how you want, but think about smoke and smell if you don't have a ventilated/dedicated area for roasting. It is fun but definitely not for everyone.

@"Teaboy"#p64151 depends on where you live. Assuming Uk, then hasbean, falcon micro, coffeelink. You can buy in batch (suggest to start with 5kg to see if you can go long term). Green beans are said to be best within 12 months of harvesting but 24m old beans are still very good if store properly (dry, cold, dark place). I buy 86+ beans for around 13-14EUR/kg and those go for 40 if not 50EUR where I live so with our consumption, quite a bit of saving. Still not even yet but I can try different beans which is a huge plus for me

@"delta76"#p64153 thank you, I am only looking to roast small amounts to begin with hopefully to get things right, I tried to order some roasted beans from hasbean the other day and the company is no more unfortunately.

@"Teaboy"#p64151 https://micro.greencoffeecollective.com/products/tulipe-nanegal?_pos=9&_fid=ff20518fe&_ss=c For example. They have a lot of greens available with low minimums. Best prices are just buying one bean. Greens are nowhere near as sensitive as roasted to storage. I don’t freeze them, just in a pegged up bag but then I haven’t kept any for more than a few months yet.

Greens

Chivalry

the biggest plus… is its massively cheaper…….. i pay around 39 quid for 4KG of green beans,,,, even with the loss during roasting… it still works out at well under £3 per 250g of roasted beans….
I use a Gene cafe i bought second hand probably 17-19 odd years ago for £125 and its still going strong!

Yeah i know if your starting new you have the price of the roaster to factor in… but depending on the ammount you drink,, you can make back the cost very quick… plus its quite fun and intresting.. each to their own but id reccomend giving it a go .. :)

DavecUK

Chivalry the biggest plus… is its massively cheaper…….. i pay around 39 quid for 4KG of green beans,,,, even with the loss during roasting… it still works out at well under £3 per 250g of roasted beans….

Just remember when bought in 60 or 70kg bags, the true cost of those beans (I assume the postage is included in the £39 price) is more like £3 or £4 per Kg. I buy a 35 or 60 Kilo bag with beans costing £12 - 14 per Kilo and the mark up from the wholesaler is small.

You always have to remember the quality of the coffee as well…not just price. This was the point I was trying to make in my other post.

In the very competitive online roasting environment now, I don’t know if it’s still worth roasting your own beans unless your buying wholesale and have a really good roaster. It’s why BB stopped selling a lot of home roasters and the 1kg one.

delta76

Chivalry there is quite big difference in price between commercial grade vs specialty, and between lower score specialty (82,83 SCA) vs high score (87+) vs truly exotic (90+).
The reason I went to home roasting is that I wanted to try some good beans (86+) and they are either too expensive (> 50EUR/kg if I buy one kilo bag, and sometimes without free shipping. If I buy 230gr bag then actual price is like 80 EUR/kg). When roasting my actual cost is < 20 EUR/kg and I can have fresh coffee ready any time. Also roasting and looking at roast log to see what I did right and when I went wrong is fun.
As I said, it is a hobby. Even more niche than espresso itself. It works for some but not a lot of people. As with any hobby, expect to spend more money instead of saving, but you have fun in the process.

Sure, in some cases you can actually save money (if you ignore things like time). If that works for you and is your main drive, great. But it is not always the case.

Teaboy

Chivalry where do you get your beans from please?

HarveyMushman

I still think it can be cost effective if you have expensive taste in retail beans. I don’t want to name names but I just checked and there’s a roaster selling 200g bags roasted for £14 that you can get green for about £12.50 a kilo. I don’t know for certain that it’s the exact same crop, but it’s the same farm area.

But yeah, considering you can get very good coffee roasted and delivered for £20 a kilo or less these days, saving money isn’t a good reason to start home roasting.

Is it just competition bringing the cost of green beans up and cost to consumer down? Back in about 2015 I used to live round the corner from a fairly big London roaster, friends with the owner and he’d sell me roasted kg’s at the price he’d sell wholesale which was about £14 I think, but there must be barely any margin on that kind of figure these days.

delta76

HarveyMushman it is actually quite common. Where I live the roasters charge generally 4-5x of green bean price (of the same bean I could find) for roasted one. They have a lot to pay for, and on top of that, making a profit. We usually skip the time part on our side, and smaller things like electricity but they have to account for even smallest thing of their business. They need to earn a living too and I don’t blame them for setting the price as they see fit.

oddbean

Had been lurking the forums for a second hand roaster until I got a Gene Cafe roaster for free last summer and roasted around 15kg of greens since. Haven’t thrown away any of my roasts(you need to drink bad coffee to appreciate a good one). And it’s first time this week I bought a couple of kilos of roasted coffee. I have a new machine and want to see how it works with “proper” coffee. Just had my first espresso earlier and can’t taste the difference. :)

So find a second hand roaster. Or a cheap new one. Skywalker Chinese roaster is making some waves lately as it is cheap and has quite a few features most of cheap roasters don’t have, plus you can roast a minimum of 330g.

Roasting is as easy or complicated you want to make it. And pennine tea and coffee has some good prices for greens. Usually buying 5kg at a time.

HarveyMushman

delta76

Yeah I’m amazed some smaller roasters even break even.

We commonly get small roasters round here who sell at weekend farmers markets etc. They’re not usually amazing but they charge about £4.50 for a 250g bag. I’m thinking even if they sell 100 bags on a weekend they’ve made £450 which for two days of standing on a market stall, plus the time to actually roast and pack/label, it barely seems worth it.

Obviously there’s online sales too but yeah, you’ve gotta sell a lot of coffee for it to seem like an appealing line of work to go into.

delta76

HarveyMushman if i have to guess, then likely someone trying to get into roasting business. They charge lower price, for maybe lower quality bean, just to break even or small profit. Beans were roasted in a garage, just for fun and for learning. As long as they keep the cash flow positive, they can keep doing it until they move to the next stage… Buy a commercial roaster, open a shop etc.
Can definitely see a possibility of me doing the same one day. When money is no longer a concern 🤣

InfamousTuba

I did a little check on Pennine tea and coffee and as Dave said they are charging about double what we would pay for the same coffees. The coffees are mostly not that high quality, although they class as specialty they are on the lower end and would mainly be found as blend components at a specialty roaster

I would definitely say 88 graines have some great looking greens that I have heard good things about and they are finally opening up for wholesale customers so once they get some new lots I can see how good they are

delta76

InfamousTuba all things considered (price, bean score, actual bean quality, packaging, information and shipping cost) i have not found anything better than them, so strong recommendation from me. If they have African beans I’m golden. Waiting to buy another 10kg from them for the summer

InfamousTuba

delta76

I have heard they might be getting some Ethiopian beans (depending on the quality of the samples they are sent) although the season has only just finished so they are a little while away from arriving

I am waiting for the Ethiopians before I order some samples of other stuff they have

delta76

InfamousTuba where is the source? Big if true :).

InfamousTuba

delta76 Christopher Feran posted on discord (Espresso Aficionados) that they would be getting coffee that he had selected from his time in Ethiopia working with crop to cup(and his green selection is superb as a general rule) so then I emailed 88 graines about wholesale from my roastery account and asked them about it

delta76

Fingers crossed! If it is 2024 crop I will buy 20kg 🤣

InfamousTuba

It is December 2023 to February 2024 crop so that is as fresh as you can get from Ethiopia. Christopher’s Instagram shows his trip to Ethiopia to choose lots and meet the farmers along with loads of other useful info

HarveyMushman

InfamousTuba

Slightly odd question but what are the requirements for buying greens as wholesale and are they any cheaper than for retail customers?

Long story short I technically have a coffee roasting business as it was easy for my Accountant (who I use for my main company) to spin up a new Ltd. and do the accounts for it. I did it mainly to protect the name on the very unlikely off-chance I ever wanted to sell roasts.

InfamousTuba

HarveyMushman Slightly odd question but what are the requirements for buying greens as wholesale and are they any cheaper than for retail customers?

So every importer will have different requirements as far as minimum purchase quantity, also they might not deal with very small businesses. You might find that some importers will allow you to buy single bags but that would still usually be 35-70kg of coffee of a single origin to roast in 100g batches which is a huge amount. Delivery for larger weights of coffee can be quite high as well so that will increase the price you pay

I don’t have that much knowledge as far as green buying for small quantities goes, probably some of the small scale roasters or larger scale home roasters might have a better idea how to get good prices on greens

DavecUK

HarveyMushman Slightly odd question but what are the requirements for buying greens as wholesale and are they any cheaper than for retail customers?

Yes, if you buy wholesale amounts you get the proper market prices for the coffee. When you buy small amounts you are paying 2 - 4 times more than you should be.

Falcon requirements are Minimum 3 sacks, they could be 3 × 35kg grain pros, but @ 10 per Kilo for good to very good coffee, that could be over £1000, because usually the minimum order is 3 bags and the pallet cost is around 90 for up to 7 bags.

If you contact Falcon coffee, they will give you the options for commercial purchase and price lists….and once you set up an account.

HarveyMushman

@DavecUK @InfamousTuba

Great, many thanks both. Good to know for the future if I ever move into larger capacity roasting.

While we’re on the subject, are workhorse 5kg roasters available to rent/lease to roasting businesses? I see roasters like the IR-5 are in £15-20k range which seems like an astronomical up-front cost given that most of the roasteries I see selling volumes that could justify that kind of cost are roasting a far higher batch volume than 5kg.

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