We are in the process of planning to beef up our home security and integrate a few smart switches over a period of time. We live a very safe area; however, there has been a steady increase in break-ins recently specifically targeting a particular section of the community for valuables. These thefts happen even during the day time. All these organised group require is a short window of opportunity lasting even 30 mins. They break in, scan the house with metal scanners for valuables like jewels, leave everything untouched except the valuables. If they don’t find anything, they can ransack the house. Touch wood, we are fine. We have an ADT monitored police burglar alarm in our detached property. We also added a fire alarm. We don’t have any major issues with their service. We know no security is fool proof for determined burglars. The burglar alarm — even monitored — aren’t going to be effective when these groups require just 0.5 hour of an empty house. Nevertheless, we are thinking what can be done to improve the security as a deterrent. We are thinking, may be : * Video door bell, CCTV outside and/or inside the house. * Install a few smart switches - not use smart switch provider’s clouds; but, we are ok to use Apple home kit and enable icloud access for away home remote access * We already have motion-sensitive lights. Not sure, we want to invest in a dusk-dawn automatic lights for running costs reasons. * Check and install anti-snap locks on all doors, assuming the windows are stable. Most of the windows are always locked. * Perhaps, smart curtains? We want to keep the costs down. We welcome your thoughts, recommendations and comments. We don’t have plans to move away from ADT, unless there a compelling reason. Am happy to look at the DIY route in the case of smart home category. Thx for reading !

> @"Gagaryn"#p4635 A big barky dog. Sorry. Please clarify.

The best deterrent you can buy, is a dog that barks........beats all your alarms!

Or a sign in door vsaying beware of dog.

Start a neighbourhood watch if there isn’t already one in your area ?

Dogs are great but a steak laced with drugs knocks them out pretty fast. My neighbour had two very aggressive Rottweillers. Drugged and sleeping soundly hours after burglars relieved them of an entire safe that was concreted into the floor. Full of commercial jewellery. Someone knew it was there i guess and also knew that there was a reason they kept two Rottweillers. I suspect a good guard dog is a real asset when you are at home but of less value against professional theives when you are absent.

Thx for all the suggestions. Love the dog to bits. Agree. They are the best deterrent. I have been wanting a German Shepherd for a long time. My wife is so scared, will start shrieking at the sight of a dog at a distance and have seen her trembling with fear taking a quite a while to calm down. Unfortunately, I can’t as I don’t want her live in constant fear. Sign post is a good idea and better than nothing. I don’t think my street is in the neighbourhood watch scheme. We need every household to be part of the scheme, is it not ? Can anyone have a view or an advisory on an independent home security evaluation expert please? The Alarm companies always advise you with a commercial intent.

> @"tompoland"#p4648 entire safe that was concreted into the floor. Thanks for demolishing the idea! 😂 If we are away, even a video monitoring is of no use. I know an acquaintance of ours watched their house looted in real time. They couldn’t do anything except trying to scramble some one to the crime scene. By the time police and their friends arrived, they cleaned out everything. Long break, they go to Kennels. There is only so much we can do to protect. Thx for the inputs.

Personally, I just wouldn't worry about it. Burglaries unfortunately are a fact of life - always have been and always will be. You have already made your property a less appealing proposition than others by installing basic security measures like the alarm and motion activated lighting. This will encourage opportunist thiefs to look elsewhere. There is nothing proportionate that you can do to deter professional burglars from breaking in. Every alarm and security measure can be bypassed or broken if there is sufficient will to do so. Adding further measures like more lighting, better locks etc might make you feel safer - and that might be reason enough to install them - but is unlikely to deter anyone who isn't already deterred.

@"Gagaryn"#p4656 You hit the nail on the problem statement. Professional burglars are like professional hackers. We can’t shield if they want to get in. Thx for the inputs.

Home Security and Smart Home

dfk41

Beware of the wife might work better

LMSC

dfk41 Trademark power message from you mate! 😂

DavecUK

I believe a house sitter, if possible, is a great thing to have when you are on holiday. Otherwise as someone said, make your house less appealing than other people’s.

Something else to do is Alexa having radios and lights coming on to a schedule, keep ground floor curtains closed more.

LMSC

DavecUK Not sure, if we have access to professionally vetted house sitters. Perhaps, will be more expensive than the cost of holidays for the whole family.

Agree re-Alexa / Siri Auto random lights feature. We have manual at the moment, which comes at a fixed time.

Heard about smart curtains.

The valuables like jewels are mostly at a remote location except a few.

There is only so much we can do to protect. We can’t eliminate and have a little control on breaks-in when they need just 30 minutes to flush out the valuables like Jewellery. 😊

LMSC

What are the choices to put together a few smart switches please?

We have single to triple gang dimmable and standard chrome brushed switches for LED down lights
We don’t want to replace the switches and lights - certainly not the bulbs.
Ideally, something like zigbee types, which sit behind the existing chrome switches. Do we have anything else pl?
We don’t want to depend on the manufacturer’s cloud services for remote access - partly privacy, what if they go down or can’t access.
The planned set up is : smart switch —> RP 4 + Home Kit —> Apple icloud for remote access —> home kit app.
Finally, we don’t want to convert the whole house to smart switches in one go. Convert a few like kitchen, hallway, outside the main door light, one or two bedrooms and go from there.

hellojava

LMSC I have Lutron switches throughout my house. They use a wifi hub attached to your router. I can control them from anywhere, including voice using (Alexa/Google/apple/etc). They get pricey, at about 50 a piece for dimmers, but they’re REALLY good. They also directly replace existing switches.

For cameras, I use the Ubiquiti UniFi products. Again, no subscription. I bought them due to the ease of setup, the incredible user interface, and the the accessibility. The cameras can also be accessed anywhere, they have motion detectors, and they have IR LED for night vision.

I also use their wifi access points and edge router, which are far superior to having a single router.

hornbyben

Sounds like you have a pretty reasonable approach already setup. Beware of the trap of getting sucked into fear rather than managing risk, it’s easy to do. When you actually look at the data you usually find that we’re living in the safest times we ever have.

In my opinion insurance is there to protect your stuff, and your alarm should alert you if you get back and have been burgled. My only concern is not to surprise a burglar, as you never know what someone might do when desperate.

My only other thought, based on your comments, is to plant some jewellery some where not too hidden, so if you are burgled they take it and leave vs trash the place.

In terms of smart home, how IT savvy are you? Most of the off the shelf switches that are easy use the cloud (with all the associated risks that involves). You can do it for reasonable cost without, but this tends to be more DIY, using a raspberry pi type device as the hub. There are commercial smart home systems that have the server in your house, but these tend to be fairly expensive and are more for a whole house upgrade. I use a system called Loxone (https://www.loxone.com/enen/) to do this, but this was as part of a whole house renovation and cost several thousand. It manages lighting, heating, electric blinds etc. They do have a wireless version that is smaller and would do what you ask, but you need a consultant to order it and set it up, and I’d expect you’d be talking towards a grand to do what you want (from memory the server is approx. £400, relay sockets are approx £100 each). They’re a lot more expensive because everything is designed to last the life of the building, whereas most consumer electronics are expected to be replaced every few years.

Be aware, I suspect a savvy burgler now would just trip the consumer box when they brake in, which will kill most of the “smart” security systems.

LMSC

hornbyben My only other thought, based on your comments, is to plant some jewellery some where not too hidden, so if you are burgled they take it and leave vs trash the place.

My wife usually leaves most of her ear rings collections - barring expensive stuffs — on her bed side table. She does bring her jewels from safe regularly. Considering the recent spurt in thefts against a particular community, they will go back to the locker this week end

hornbyben how IT savvy are you?

Good in this department. I have networked the entire property — all Cat 6 and also installed ceiling mounted APs on all floors.

hornbyben I use a system called Loxone

Interesting! Thanks for the heads up. We don’t need raspberry pi if we go down the Loxone route, do we? Do we need to use their cloud for remote access

hornbyben Be aware, I suspect a savvy burgler now would just trip the consumer box when they brake in, which will kill most of the “smart” security systems.

We can’t protect it against these or pros!

@DavecUK Many thanks for the nice bucket list. We will review and try to follow them as much as possible

DavecUK Put a curtain or something across the front door, difficult for key fishing and when closed looks like you are in (have a way of closing the curtain when you go out). It also hides any mail that may have come, if there is a way of seeing in. Undealt with mail is a sure sign you are away

How does this work please ? You wrote in another thread, it saves energy costs.

Thx

DavecUK

To make a house more secure requires a number of things, which centre around, making it more unattractive to burgle than other houses:

Security systems and good locks
Making any routine unclear, so it’s difficult to know if you are in or out
Being wary of social media postings e.g. instagram of you on a beach somewhere
Make it difficult to see inside the house, keep curtains closed when you can…unless you are in a room.
Get Phillips hue lightbulbs or similar in key areas and run them on a schedule (always), or lamps on smart plugs
Put a curtain or something across the front door, difficult for key fishing and when closed looks like you are in (have a way of closing the curtain when you go out). It also hides any mail that may have come, if there is a way of seeing in. Undealt with mail is a sure sign you are away
Beware of dog signs, back gate and front door
Security lighting
Run a talk radio type station 3 times per day for 30 minutes on Alexa
Ask a neighbour to park on your drive whilst you are away (I do this for my neighbour).
Ask a neighbour to put your bins out for you and put some of their stuff in them if necessary and even to pick up any mail inside and store it for you.
make sure a neighbour pushes any leaflets etc.. all the way into your letter box every day

The above are all inexpensive things you can do….nothing makes you burglrar proof, but it all helps.

hornbyben

LMSC For loxone it’s a fully standalone system and you don’t need the cloud or a raspberry pi). The hub is a server and all traffic remains in your house. This means it all works if the internet goes down. It also means that if the company went bust it would still work, it just wouldn’t get updated. They do offer a cloud connection if you want, but the approach I took was to get a router with VPN capability. If I want to access it, I just vpn into my house and then it’s as if I’m on my local network.

It uses a visual programming language, so it’s pretty easy to make configuration changes yourself.

The other point to consider with cloud based solutions is that it costs money to run the cloud. This means that at some point in the future the company offering the product will probably drop support, or if they go bust it stops working. Either way expect to pay a subscription service or be forced to upgrade.

LMSC

hornbyben Lan-based solution is good. It isn’t hard to set up a VPN service to use the smart features, although I am open to consider our own cloud solution or using apple’s icloud for homekit.

How long have you had it please ? Are there any challenges? Would you recommend it ?

Thx for your inputs. Very useful.

DavecUK

I have a wooden front door with letterbox, a curtain saves a considerable amount of heat loss from the front door. The curtain draws across the alcove nicely and if you put your hand in there at night, that area is very cold. The curtain also hampers fishing for keys etc..

When those gits push leaflets partly through the letterbox leaving the letter hatch wide open, it can also help, especially if you don’t notice it. I keep the ground floor window curtains closed as well.

P.S. I even wish I could have a letterbox that auto locks at night and opens in the day, or even no letterbox and a letterbox on the wall of the porch (which I have considered)!

hornbyben

LMSC Yes, I definitely recommend it, but probably only if you’re looking to do a wider smart home upgrade. Otherwise I’m not sure it’s worth the cost.

We’ve had it for about 4 years and not had any challenges. Everything just works. We originally went down this route because we have a large open plan room (5 different lighting circuits plus 4 electric blinds) and didn’t want loads of switches. We now do everything with a single 3 gang switch. One rocker for the living area lights, one for the kitchen area lights and one for the blinds. For the lights you setup scenes and then just keep pressing the button to toggle through them. The blinds all go up and down with the switch. This does 99% of our daily needs, but if you need to do something different, such as moving a single blind, or a different lighting setup, this is easily done from the app on the phone/tablet.

LMSC

hornbyben Thx.

We assume you have LEDs, smart switches in every room to control every light, etc.

We have LEDs plus standard and dimmable chrome-plated switches. We have spent a fortune. It will be be good if we can install / convert the existing set up to smart features.

But, you said, you just have a single 3 gang switch.

I thought you need a smart switch for every existing wall switch.

Thx

hornbyben

LMSC You end up needing different wall switches off you take this route. Essentially you replace the standard switches with momentary contact switches rather than latching. In my case all the switches have Ethernet cable running back to the server and are running at 24v. The system then registers you pressing the button and the programming tells it what to do with that. This does mean you can change what your switch does if you decide. They can also detect between a single click, double click, long press etc.

All the lights are wired to related in the server cabinet, and some go to a dimmer module in the cabinet. For my led lights these are also connected to controllers in the cabinet.

No dimming is done by the switches.

I hope that helps.

LMSC

hornbyben You are going to hate me as I will keep asking questions. I am going to read Loxone and also Lutron, Crestron and Control4.

Direct network cable is always the best. This is something we did not plan. I can’t break the already refurbished wall after all the work.

I assume you replaced only the light switches and not all the wall sockets for power cables. I also hope we can do Wifi over those momentary switches connected to AP via the switch —> modem router —> firewall.

We already have a good set up for burglar alarm, fire alarm and Hive for heater / hot water.

The home automation will focus on lights, a few sockets (not all), blinds / curtains, and finally entertainment. The network will stay out of the mix.

There is a proposal to call and review the doors and windows for energy efficiency as the property is > 40 years old ; perhaps, Banham for the door. I am thinking if I should go the smart doors way with a manual control over ride.

I will be calling one of the local companies to take a look at the doors and windows.

Please share, if you don’t mind. if you have any documents, which may have or put together.

If any of you know a decent home security company who may be able to visit, assess and give a free quote, please do let me know.

Thx

Elcarajillo

Gagaryn The only problem with that is that now they are stealing the dogs.

There is a major problem now with dog thefts linked internationally and not just pets.

Gagaryn

Elcarajillo Everything can be stolen. The key here is acting in a way proportionate to the risk. The only way to guarantee not having stuff stolen is not owning stuff. Applies to dogs too as you helpfully pointed out. The sensible way forward is taking basic common sense precautions that will give peace of mind to both the owner and crucially the insurer. Then stop worrying and enjoy your life.

hornbyben

LMSC No problem, I’m happy to help if I can.

Correct, we didn’t change any wall sockets. We have a couple of relay sockets that can be used if we want for lamps, but to be honest we don’t use them at the minute. We had one location where we knew we wanted a lamp, so we got a lamp socket installed at this location.

I’m always conflicted with smart doors. I think they sound cool, but would I trust them to be reliable enough not to carry a key, and if you’re still carrying a key what’s the point. I decided just to get all the doors keyed alike so I only have to carry one key.

I don’t have any useful documents unfortunately. We discussed with a home automation consultant and agreed a spec, and then he just quoted. I don’t think he charged for an initial chat, but he’s a smaller local player. He’s in Guildford, so if you happen to be in that region too, let me know and I’ll email you his details.

Good luck

LMSC

One of the things I will be looking into in the home automation space will be the compliance to the wireless IP-based Matter standards. . I am looking at it with interest, although it is too early to see anything popping up soon.

I just don’t see how I can hide the ethernet cables for those light switches. 😊

DavecUK

LMSC I just don’t see how I can hide the ethernet cables for those light switches. 😊

I use Phillips Hue Bulbs and set a schedule with Alexa.

Meldrew

We use the Philips hue lamps even have some in the garden on a pir sensor. We also have blinds on all the windows instead of curtains which go to a favourite position in the mornings and come down at night. Still looking at alarm systems and or cctv. Not sure which way to go at the moment.

LMSC

Can’t have Philips hue bulbs as our recently installed LEDs will stay. Perhaps, we will use when our corner and table lamps fail. At the moment we use them as holiday lamps controlled by a manual timer (preset).

Meldrew How does your work? Could you elaborate please ?

Thx

DavecUK

Meldrew cctv. Not sure which way to go at the moment.

CCTV is really good…you can actually see them breaking in and robbing you if you are not there…🤣

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