The following was posted on Basecamp Diaspora (for Decent). We've all heard the hype going around for how both a hot start (keeping the motor on before dropping in beans) and slow feed (feeding beans into the burrs slowly) leads to a more uniform grind size and better extraction. The Niche Zero was released before these practices became common, making them difficult to do on the stock machine. I've redesigned the lid to include a hole at the top with a cap, allowing the motor to run while beans are slowly fed in. This prevents beans from jumping out ('popcorning') if attempted without a lid and is technically safer than adding beans to an open hopper. **What you'll also need:** **2x** 15mm M3 bolts **2x** M3 5.7x5mm heat set inserts * optional but recommended, you can also use super glue or a glue gun **1x** 6x1.5mm magnet \*\* Instructions:\*\* 1. Remove the stock lid from the Niche Zero and keep the original bolt. 2. If you're using heat set inserts, install them from the outside into the holes of the Cover. 3. Place the Hinge between the Cover's hinges, and secure it with the M3 bolts on either side, allowing it to rotate. Use glue if you didn't use inserts. 4. Apply a dab of super glue in the recess of the magnet well, and place the magnet in. Ensure the polarity matches! 5. Insert the bolt from the stock lid into the larger hole of the Hinge, which should sit flush. 6. Attach the assembly by screwing the bolt into the main grinder body. 7. Test the mechanism by opening and closing it several times to ensure smooth operation. 8. Place the Cap on top when the grinder is not in use. \*\* Notes:\*\* * The one in the picture is a V1 I've been using. I updated the files attached before posting to a version that's a bit shorter and matches the dimensions of the original one better * One annoying thing is you can't see the dial position when it's closed anymore. Maybe I'll try printing it in clear resin someday but for now it'll do Files here: Worthwhile? Thoughts? Is there a good rationale for this? Has anyone tried it? What are the taste impacts? Fyi, I went the opposite route and removed the flow control disk, for speed. A Decent owner that uses the Niche Z also found that removing the disk improved his grind/shot consistency. I’m trying that out. Any cons to that approach? Though I suppose I could slow feed the beans ….

Good rationale to remove your finger tips👍👍 Personally don't see the need but sure someone will have the stats, Saw this at weekend and it made me think [URL=https://i.imgur.com/hOWCRRT.png][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/hOWCRRT.png[/IMG][/URL]

@"JHCCoffee"#p64525 Has anyone shown that hot starting a Zero improves grind distribution and/or extraction (how do you 'improve' extraction. you normally get more/less and tailor to your preference?). Prior to the recent small scale production grinders, underpowered, variable speed where the speed can be set low enough to stall and grinders that don't have a mushroom at the base of the hopper, grinders (certainly in the UK/EU) had a safety switch to prevent fingers from coming in contact with the burrs. Removing the disc makes the hopper area less clean/tidy, particles can gather around the grind indicator dial. I wouldn't slow feed the beans (slower than the NFC disc). I currently don't have the NFC disc installed for filter (and had the grinder for a couple of years before fitting the disk).

Hot starting is an invention with suitable rationale for underpowered grinders

Seems a total waste of time. The Niche works perfectly as is.

@"RickO88"#p64547 you're not sold on the idea ? 🫣

@"Adrianmsmith"#p64548 You are very perceptive!

@"Cuprajake"#p64526 I don't understand what is being presented in the plot you pasted? It is not the result of sifting with a 500um sieve? You would typically put the unsifted grinds through laser particle analysis.

Dropping in a dose bean by bean would just be too tedious, for me. It would double the length of my process. Between doing bean by bean dosing, RDT, WDT, etc, its would be just too complex and time consuming, for me. Everyone has a different style, so what ever works for you. Then there is one influencer who made a well intentioned and researched video (unless you interpret it’s hyperbole to be more about making revenue producing videos than offering sound advise) which was about inspecting each and every bean. …. Ok … look at the bean, make a decision, feed it (only) into the grinder, genuflect at it, grind it, dance around and put the next one in. Is there anytime left for actually drinking the coffee? 🕺👯💃 and then (maybe) ☕️ . Just kidding around. He was suggesting inspecting the entire pound, to toss out badly formed or roasted beans, which is abit more efficient. Except that too is (for me) too time consuming, alongside weighing and vacuum packing 3 day bean portions. My wife would wonder what I was doing now, and then roll her eyes at me or down giggling. We espresso aficionado do seek perfection. But bean sorting and bean by bean grinder feeding does seem to be way too time consuming. Its getting silly.

> @"JHCCoffee"#p64576 Its getting silly. We're well past that stage already

Niche Zero - Hot start, Slow feed mod ??

delta76

The point of buying a NZ, for me at least, is how well it’s made and how smooth the “flow” is - not the grind quality (it’s very good but not ground breaking (pun intended) in that regard). Modifying it seems silly to me, but each to its own

Dusk

If you want to grind slower then buy a hand grinder….

Adrianmsmith

Do you guys suggesting these “hacks” and producing the analysis and graphs drink coffee?

Do you do blind taste tests and can you give your notes from the taste tests showing what each change actually did in the cup to the taste, and maybe which change in the curves made that difference.

It Would be more interesting to see the notes and learn about how much better it tasted than to look at the actual data 😎🫣 sorry if I missed that above.

MWJB

Adrianmsmith No members of this forum have produced any graphs in this thread. We all drink coffee.

Grinders work by grinding coffee, they can grind it to a specific grind size range and have different grind characteristics within that range. This is normal. They don’t think, anticipate, 2nd guess nor should they influence the flavour in any other way…unless perhaps you ground some spices in it previously & haven’t cleaned it properly 😀

Blind taste testing isn’t very practical in a day-to-day brewing basis. We’re not trying to test the efficacy of a medicine, we’re just looking for ways to make our coffee taste better to us and sharing.

How much you like your coffee and what you did to get there is data, not separate to data.

If it doesn’t interest you, ignore it. If you have a way to repeatedly make cups you enjoy, share it.

Adrianmsmith

MWJB

I did not realise my methods were different and considered them normal, obviously just to me.

When I change a grinder of method I rope my wife in to helping me do a blind test. No point otherwise. It’s the only way I know to see if I am getting what I consider to be better results. If I pick the wrong cup the new kit gets sold. Simple as that.

Simple to do. Hardest part is getting both cups the same temperature for tasting.

Once I pick my favourite I tip coffee everywhere looking what number is on the bottom of the cup.

How do you judge if a change is preferable ?

MWJB

Adrianmsmith I’m interested primarily in significant differences in improvement, not slight/imperceptible without A/B testing. There’s always differences from cup to cup, even when preparing the same way/grinder/method, I want to be as sure as I can differences are not typical noise. I back up with taste preference scores over a sample of coffees (10 minimum, unless cups are unfinishable and a significant change in grind/process is needed).

How do you eliminate finger trouble influencing the result? We can all make 2 cups taste different with the same kit. It doesn’t take me long to get ball park with a grinder/method, but getting things close enough for like for like comparison takes a fair while.

Making 2 cups when I want one drink seems wasteful, but do what works for you.

JHCCoffee

Glad everyone is enjoying my post. 😁 Saw it on Basecamp and thought: this will definitely get some conversation going on CoffeeTime. It’s been abit quiet around here lately.

Back to the thread: A couple of fellows on Basecamp, including one who also is part of “Team HB” (are you on the Team? I’m not on the Team. I guess I’m not a team player! How aweful! 😂 ) posted this on HB about the Flow Control Disk: https://www.home-barista.com/grinders/grinder-consistency-testing-t91282.html

PS I’m sure he’s a good guy. Just don’t like the concept of Team HB, the attitude of the moderator and the elitism that both foster. Better to ask for donations as we do here.

Back to the thread and the FCD. I temporarily removed mine, just to see. Dumb idea?

MediumRoastSteam

JHCCoffee I temporarily removed mine, just to see. Dumb idea?

Nothing wrong with trying it out. I’ve done many times. Remember, the original Niche Zero came without the disk.

Cuprajake

JHCCoffee people have wayyyyyy to much time on their hands

I get it’s a hobby, and each to their own but using all that time and effort to basically not really change anything

Back in my marine fish and coral keeping days there were great people like that, but the studies actually brought about real change and growth/sustainability in coral care etc

Not just 0.001% extra extraction that we may not want or even need

I feel this is one hobby where there’s a constant buzz around the next best thing. It’s easy to get caught up in , I’ve been there

But now just CBA with all the noise 😂

DavecUK

JHCCoffee Back to the thread and the FCD. I temporarily removed mine, just to see. Dumb idea?

If it helps, I can give the concept of why I came up with the flow control disk. Niche wanted to remove popcorning…I wanted to control flow. The flow control disk gave Niche what they wanted and me what I wanted. Win/Win.

By controlling flow into a conical burr set you get a more consistent grind and potentially less fines. Conical burrs work by the breaker zone really packing and “auguring” the coffee into the burrs. Something we probably don’t want if we need to get the best grind quality from the system. The disk prevents this happening so quickly.

If you look at power consumption with and without the disk you get something like this. I can’t quite draw the right shapes (and they don’t have a relative scale)…but you should get the idea.

In the first the grinder loads up and then gradually looses power…the grind going from fine to coarse as that happens. In the second shape, the grinder loads up and stays constant, then rapidly drops away. There is a much longer period of consistent grind size and the drop off is fast. In truth the power peak will be less in the second graph and the drawings are approximations to illustrate the point..

JHCCoffee

MediumRoastSteam Nothing wrong with trying it out. I’ve done many times. Remember, the original Niche Zero came without the disk.

Just curious. What’s your preference and why. Thanks!

MediumRoastSteam

JHCCoffee - I found that:

Without the disk, there’s more body;
With the disk, there’s more clarity.

But it’s a tiny difference, very subtle. Doubt you’d be able to pick that up on a blind taste.

Adrianmsmith

MediumRoastSteam surely that’s exactly where you would pick it up.

The brain can pick anything it wants up in a cup made in isolation.

Mostly down to pre conceived expectations.

Blind test is required to give the true picture .

MWJB

Adrianmsmith The brain can pick anything it wants up in a cup made in isolation.

Mostly down to pre conceived expectations.

Sounds like the fast track to happiness 😀

There are still pre conceived expectations in a blind A/B test, because it’s not double blind and you know ahead of time what the differences are in prep. In sensory research it is vital the subjects don’t know what any test conditions are, or which is the control. Monadic testing of one sample only, at a time, is also a real thing.

MediumRoastSteam

Adrianmsmith surely that’s exactly where you would pick it up.

I was asked about my preference (I don’t have one) so I reported what my experience has been. The end. :-)

Adrianmsmith

MediumRoastSteam

The end, MK2 😎

Adrianmsmith

Cuprajake But now just CBA with all the noise

🫣😉🫣😉🫣

Have you heard one of your videos since selling that thing with the rotary pump.

😉🫣😁😜😭🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁

Sorry pall!!!

JHCCoffee

DavecUK If it helps, I can give the concept of why I came up with the flow control disk

Most appreciated Dave! I now better understand the concept.

drdre89

Question. Why don’t people grind coffee with a mortar and pestle? 🤔

Adrianmsmith

drdre89 they sort of do, did you see the video of the sg1 , similar idea!!

Sorry to everyone else 😎😜🫣🤬☕

MWJB

drdre89 Takes ages and because the pestle & mortar don’t have a gap to control particles sizes you end up with a very wide distribution.

You could do it though, then pass the grinds through a sieve. There are a couple of whirly blade grinders that work like this (for brewed).

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