Well, it arrived today from BB (£165 compared to £214 most places). They only had the cream version and it arrived during the Newcastle v Spurs game. Eventually I had the time to put it together. It comes in an eco friendly box and even for me, took seconds to put together. I filled it with 300 mls of cold water and ran it. Whilst that was going through I thought about the grind level to use on the Duo which still had the espresso burrs in. I retarded it 60 which was way coarser than I would normally go, but looking at what came out it seemed to be in the ballpark for the endless videos I had seen. What attracted me in the first place was the simplicity. The only thing I need to get right is the grind. So, I made a brew using this: https://www.northernedgecoffee.co.uk/product-page/jimmy-strength-1 A roaster in Berwick upon Tweed. The beans were lighter than I expected but only opening yesterday I still have an open mind about them. The brew itself had a sweetness to which I am not accustomed, so much so that I cannot wait for breakfast tomorrow. Making a brew could not be easier. Put 300. mls water in. Grind 20 gms of beans and away you go. I have only used it once and I must admit that I ended up stirring the grinds as the water did not seem to be spreading across. Sp, I cannot wait for tomorrows breakfast now!

I have a Technivorm machine tucked away somewhere, it’s fairly old and rather on the large side, I am inspired to drag it out for breakfast.

A quick question. I have not yet read the manual, but I have heard one or two say Technivorm do not suggest using distilled or RO water. Might this have any grounding or is it just in hope that you buy their descaler (recommended after every 80 uses which matches the amount of supplied filter papers!) According to Technivorm, yes: > We do not recommend using reverse osmosis filtered water or distilled water, as it can damage the brewer’s boiling element. > > In reverse osmosis water and distilled water, all minerals are removed, and the water’s PH becomes slightly acidic. The water will leach minerals out of the copper boiling element to return to a neutral PH, eventually damaging the copper element permanently. Because we build Moccamaster coffee brewers to last for a long time, using reverse osmosis or distilled water could significantly reduce the brewer’s life. per:

Not to say this is the recommended course of action but I used (very hard) tap water in mine every single day for nearly 4 years without issue. I then discovered you’re supposed to use their descaler and did it for the sake of it but I’m pretty sure it wasn’t even necessary. Being the absolute maverick that I am I also measure out the water with the carafe which it suggests not doing. Still no problems!

@"dfk41"#p64980 Does your RO machine remineralise the water? Only those with a DI resin filter (rather than a remin/alkaline filter) take all the minerals out. Remineralised RO water can be harder than Ashbeck, Cornish & water from Glasgow. Pretty sure you're allowed to use the Moccamaster in these places. If in doubt you could mix 50:50 tap & RO until you can check the KH/alkalinity of your water mix.

@"MWJB"#p64983 My RO is an Osmio Zero so i don't think it remineralises. It is no big deal to descale it every now and again\`!

Right, this morning I repeated yesterdays brew (20 gms, 300 mls water on 60 on the Duo espresso burrs). The process took 6 minutes from start to finish. I think the target is 3 to 4 minutes, so that tells me to coarsen the grind by 30%. Before my next cup I am going to put the brew burrs in. They are virgin having had nothing through them. This is the brew bed and to me, it already looks pretty coarse. Any pointers what to set the Duo dial at with brand new brew burrs in, with the aim of brewing in about 3.30?[URL=https://i.imgur.com/nEAEg6r.jpeg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/nEAEg6r.jpeg[/IMG][/URL]

@"dfk41"#p64991 presumably those espresso burrs are making enough fines which slow down the pour. Maybe you wouldn’t need to grind that coarse with the brew burrs.

> @"dfk41"#p64986 My RO is an Osmio Zero so i don’t think it remineralises. It does through remineralisation cartridge.

@"dfk41"#p64991 A proposed 90 on the Duo sounds bizarrely coarse. In this video the brewer takes 3:41 just to to deliver all the water to the filter cone, with the brew basket full of liquid at this time. Brew ends about 5:00 then a little more time to let drips finish. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek9x-rBmeQs&t=507s This video shows a brew ending around 5:50 (4:00 to dispense the water). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2XcfzKxK7U

Technivorm Moccamaster Cup One

LMSC

dfk41 I agree with @MWJB. All you need is a grind reference.

As he advised you, please start with say 32 on the Duo. Please feel free to adjust the grind reference for one bag until you are happy with it. Once you find a sweet spot around 32 (plus or minus). please stick to it for another 10-12 bags unless that default grind reference falls off consistently. These are what I had learnt from him.

dfk41

LMSC 32 it is then…..not sure if ever I have tasted a sweet spot!

dfk41

Do I need to record anything else? I put in 10 ounces but for got to weigh it to see how much the dry puck had.

The brew was fuller bodied but for me, I could not particularly pick out any notes. Perhaps I ought to forget florals and citrus and concentrate more on chocolates?

MWJB

dfk41 I wouldn’t ‘focus’ on any particular note, just be open minded & score on how much you like it. I assume your score of 6 is out of 10?

You have a weight of 201, this is the beverage in the cup? Seems low for brew water weight of around of 300g, based on this, my guess is that you are under-extracting.

For example, I have a Melitta Aromaboy, I lose 2.4x the dose weight to the grounds, so for 301g in I get 253g out, plus or minus a gram. You seem to be losing 5x the dose weight…which isn’t possible.

dfk41

MWJB Right Mark. I have to devise a routine for the new method. Unfortunately, I have to follow procedure as my brain does not function properly, hence the basic questions. This morning, everything went wrong. because I measured the water out then my wife called me, I forgot to put the water in the machine. It did not switch on! I changed the fuse, then realised my mistake! I will collect a few more brews of data before I post again. I will check the weight of the water before I put it in! but, the main thing is I have got the basic data collection right

MWJB

dfk41 You could also record the point where the machine spits/flollops loudly when the last water is dispensed?

You may as well post, brew by brew, easier to check consistency & track any changes.

Question from a pedant - Dry bed is 3min 50s, rather than three and a half minutes?

dfk41

MWJB Thats right…..once the machine takes all of the water, it switches off with a loud click so that point is easy to hear/record. I will be making a cuppa in 45 minutes or so, armed with my newfound knowledge!

dfk41

Round 2…wush wush, 20 gms, tightened the grind up 5 points on the Duo to27. Stopped taking water in at 3.10. Dry bed at 4.09 with an output weight of 254. taste score, 6.5…….once cooled slightly, the aftertaste (not every time) gave the merest subtle hint of citrus, although whether lemon, lime, orange or grapefruit I know not! This is the bed

MWJB

dfk41 So how much water went in?

32 down to 27 sounds like a large change in grind size.

Was there any silty/powdery mouthfeel in the brew?

Was the coffee just flat/muddled/dull, or was it tangy & unripe (like green tree bark/unripe fruit)?

dfk41

I use 300 mls of water and 20 gms of coffee. Dave suggested 5 notches down on the Duo. There was no silt either in mouthfeel or residue in the cup. The tastes you mention are well. beyond my ability to describe at the moment

MWJB

dfk41 You will feel it on the tongue before you see any silt in the cup, you may see some filmy reside on the surface of the brew, before you stir it. All coffee has a little undissolved solids in it. If grinding too fine, the small particles coat the tongue & make it hard to pick out flavours.

Generally, I’d say brew as coarse as you can before cups become weak & tangy, like unripe fruit. Maybe try the next cup at 29/30?

LMSC

MWJB If @dfk41 is brewing Darkwoods’ Wush Wush, may be, it is worth brewing at 60g/L. I find this 60g/l is a little better in taste than 67g/l at 12% for me.

dfk41

LMSC 20 gms per 10 fluid ouncess increase that by 2gms?

MWJB

dfk41 No, 18g:300g/10 fl oz.

MWJB

MWJB The easiest & most intuitive way to work out ‘grams per litre’ ratios is to divide it down to ‘grams per 100ml’.

So 60g/L is now 6g/100ml, 12g/200ml, 18g/300ml etc.

dfk41

MWJB I only managed one cup today, then forgot to use my scales with the timer, so will report back tomorrow with the latest! It is a shame as I am waiting to start a new Darkwoods bean and today would have been the last of the Wush Wush

dfk41

I am trying a new bean

https://skylark.coffee/collections/featured/products/myanmar-pha-yar-gyi-kone-natural

I would say it is a little lighter than medium. I just left the grind settings at what they were. The brew stopped taking in water at about 2.40 and completed the draw at 3.50. The coffee has little or no taste (18 gms, 300 mls water). Am I right in thinking I need to tighten up say one notch and try it there?

MWJB

If intensity is the issue, use more coffee. When you can taste the coffee, have a think about what is wrong with the balance?

Grind setting & weight of final brew would have been useful…I’m a bit unclear as to why the water was all deliverd 30s faster than the last brew you recorded? (I have only seen max of 5s difference with my Aromaboy, for 330g water).

If all weights & grind are normal, sense check with a different coffee.

dfk41

20gms, 300mls, water shut off 2.52, grind setting 29.5, dry bed 4.0, weight 235

Still not picking any taste and certainly not chocolate, cranberry or macademia! Despite the increase in dose by 2 gms, I am still not picking up on anything.

Edit, as it cooled, I started to realise that there was something there. Imagine you are looking at something a long way away….you know there is something there……..but you are not able to bring it into focus

MWJB

235g out or 253g? Something not right here for 300g brew water.

However, if it is 235g out, the brew would be more concentrated, if with less clarity/more under-extracted malfunctions (tangy, a little fatty/oily, woody).

If there is little flavour intensity of any kind, then it’s most likely the coffee itself.

dfk41

MWJB 235 out……basically tasteless but as it cooled there was a hint of something blowing in the breeze several fields away! I will open the grind up one notch tomorrow and try that……of course, it could just be poor coffee or good coffee roasted poorly

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