Well, it arrived today from BB (£165 compared to £214 most places). They only had the cream version and it arrived during the Newcastle v Spurs game. Eventually I had the time to put it together. It comes in an eco friendly box and even for me, took seconds to put together. I filled it with 300 mls of cold water and ran it. Whilst that was going through I thought about the grind level to use on the Duo which still had the espresso burrs in. I retarded it 60 which was way coarser than I would normally go, but looking at what came out it seemed to be in the ballpark for the endless videos I had seen. What attracted me in the first place was the simplicity. The only thing I need to get right is the grind. So, I made a brew using this: https://www.northernedgecoffee.co.uk/product-page/jimmy-strength-1 A roaster in Berwick upon Tweed. The beans were lighter than I expected but only opening yesterday I still have an open mind about them. The brew itself had a sweetness to which I am not accustomed, so much so that I cannot wait for breakfast tomorrow. Making a brew could not be easier. Put 300. mls water in. Grind 20 gms of beans and away you go. I have only used it once and I must admit that I ended up stirring the grinds as the water did not seem to be spreading across. Sp, I cannot wait for tomorrows breakfast now!

I have a Technivorm machine tucked away somewhere, it’s fairly old and rather on the large side, I am inspired to drag it out for breakfast.

A quick question. I have not yet read the manual, but I have heard one or two say Technivorm do not suggest using distilled or RO water. Might this have any grounding or is it just in hope that you buy their descaler (recommended after every 80 uses which matches the amount of supplied filter papers!) According to Technivorm, yes: > We do not recommend using reverse osmosis filtered water or distilled water, as it can damage the brewer’s boiling element. > > In reverse osmosis water and distilled water, all minerals are removed, and the water’s PH becomes slightly acidic. The water will leach minerals out of the copper boiling element to return to a neutral PH, eventually damaging the copper element permanently. Because we build Moccamaster coffee brewers to last for a long time, using reverse osmosis or distilled water could significantly reduce the brewer’s life. per:

Not to say this is the recommended course of action but I used (very hard) tap water in mine every single day for nearly 4 years without issue. I then discovered you’re supposed to use their descaler and did it for the sake of it but I’m pretty sure it wasn’t even necessary. Being the absolute maverick that I am I also measure out the water with the carafe which it suggests not doing. Still no problems!

@"dfk41"#p64980 Does your RO machine remineralise the water? Only those with a DI resin filter (rather than a remin/alkaline filter) take all the minerals out. Remineralised RO water can be harder than Ashbeck, Cornish & water from Glasgow. Pretty sure you're allowed to use the Moccamaster in these places. If in doubt you could mix 50:50 tap & RO until you can check the KH/alkalinity of your water mix.

@"MWJB"#p64983 My RO is an Osmio Zero so i don't think it remineralises. It is no big deal to descale it every now and again\`!

Right, this morning I repeated yesterdays brew (20 gms, 300 mls water on 60 on the Duo espresso burrs). The process took 6 minutes from start to finish. I think the target is 3 to 4 minutes, so that tells me to coarsen the grind by 30%. Before my next cup I am going to put the brew burrs in. They are virgin having had nothing through them. This is the brew bed and to me, it already looks pretty coarse. Any pointers what to set the Duo dial at with brand new brew burrs in, with the aim of brewing in about 3.30?[URL=https://i.imgur.com/nEAEg6r.jpeg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/nEAEg6r.jpeg[/IMG][/URL]

@"dfk41"#p64991 presumably those espresso burrs are making enough fines which slow down the pour. Maybe you wouldn’t need to grind that coarse with the brew burrs.

> @"dfk41"#p64986 My RO is an Osmio Zero so i don’t think it remineralises. It does through remineralisation cartridge.

@"dfk41"#p64991 A proposed 90 on the Duo sounds bizarrely coarse. In this video the brewer takes 3:41 just to to deliver all the water to the filter cone, with the brew basket full of liquid at this time. Brew ends about 5:00 then a little more time to let drips finish. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek9x-rBmeQs&t=507s This video shows a brew ending around 5:50 (4:00 to dispense the water). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2XcfzKxK7U

Technivorm Moccamaster Cup One

MWJB

dfk41 You brewed with 21g a couple of times the other day and got a “Quite tasty” brew on the 2nd go, with a coffee that appeared to lack flavour for the most part.

Sure, go bit finer, but remember the more coffee you use, the more concentrated the drink (as long as you can avoid overflowing the basket).

dfk41

I had forgotten about that brief 21 gm encounter, though in my defence I was just trying to tame a particular coffee. I try to change the grind setting first and only try weight of coffee after that. So, back to these 88 cup score beans…..keeping to 18gms and 290 water what should I do grind wise…..tighten up a couple of notches?

MWJB

dfk41 So, back to these 88 cup score beans…..keeping to 18gms and 290 water what should I do grind wise…..tighten up a couple of notches?

I don’t care for the cup score, even if I did, it’s only a little above median (80).

What is the reason you want to reduce dose, is the coffee too strong to enjoy?

You frequently have mentioned trouble picking up taste & intensity, reducing the dose will make all your coffee weaker (within the range of delicate to intense coffees). Personally, I wouldn’t second guess, I’d stick to a dose/brew ratio that was generally good & maybe make an adjustment where necessary only, based on a typical brew. You’re changing so much & so frequently I don’t think I have seen 2 brews at similar parameters yet.

MediumRoastSteam

@dfk41 - question if you don’t mind me asking: are you drinking more brewed/filter coffee these days rather than espresso? Or a mixture of both? Thanks!

dfk41

MediumRoastSteam My routine used to be an 18gm americano without milk at breakfast. A cappuccino at 11 am and around 2 pm another cappuccino. Since I have bought the Moccamaster I have switched the afternoon from a cappa to an americano. Once I really get the hang though, especially of both tweaking a shot and bean supply I might add a third brew into the days schedule. Unfortunately my sleep patterns vary from poor to unacceptable so I am nagged if I have more than three. That said, I can always tell her it is decaf!

dfk41

MWJB What is the reason you want to reduce dose, is the coffee too strong to enjoy?

Probably my ignorance in brew methods. I thought the increase to 21 was specific to that coffee as opposed to all coffees! So, I am picking up bits of information here, so tomorrow and going forward, I will go 21 gms, sticking with 300 mls water and start all this off at 38 in the morning. I have been writing each brew down again (I missed a couple of days) but I have high hopes of nailing this particular coffee

MWJB

Not 36, as your last brew at 38 was “watery”?

You won’t taste any difference in ratio between 20:290g & 21:300g.

dfk41

MWJB Just checking…..!

dfk41

Right, this morning, 21gms @ 36 with 300 mls of water. Score 7 from 10. Everything is better. Nice mouthfeel……but……..there is a slight taste of what I know not but it certainly ain’t raspberry. The shut off was 3.10 and dry bed 4.38 with a weight of 222. I feel that it is so nearly there!

MWJB

dfk41 Maybe do another brew at the same parameters, you have a lot of retained liquid on this one, be good to see what happens with a more normal beverage weight.

dfk41

I forgot to post this earlier…..21 gms @36, 300 mls water, shut off 3.06, dry bed 4.45……we found the missing water as it weighed 257 gms but the taste was no better/no worse

MWJB

dfk41 The good thing is, if this was no worse than the previous brew (“everything better, nice mouthfeel”, 7/10), then we don’t necessarily need to correct the brew ratio for stronger drinks.

You seem to be in a fairly good spot, you could either make anothere enjoyable brew as you are, think on what you think is lacking, or go a click finer/coarser to see how that impacts the brew?.

Have you always stirred the brew as it fills?

dfk41

Right, coaarsened this mornings brew by one mark, all other parameters the same. The figures were within spitting distance of the previous. Just the merest hint of a fruit but it is far into the distance. I always stir the bed around the 2 minute mark. The was the water is added is not at a constant. It slows up and speeds down but is always saturated around 2 minutes.

MWJB

dfk41 So this brew was less flavourful/enjoyable?

2 minutes in seems very late in the brew to be stirring/agitating. Is it not possible to do this in the first 30-60sec?

MWJB

dfk41 The was the water is added is not at a constant.

From what you have told us, the water is always added between 2:40 (more usually 2:50) and 3:10?

dfk41

MWJB I did not realise that it might make a difference Mark……you have to treat me like an idiot please!

dfk41

MWJB Those figures (2.40 to 3.10) seem to be the figure at which the brew cuts off. Would it help if I took a video of the brew from start to finish? This mornings effort only had the smallest tweak of coarsening the grind one notch so as you would expect the timings were similar, it seemed to retain slightly more water. The flavour was ever so slightly stronger.

MWJB

dfk41 My experience is that stirring agitating late in the brew leads to more silty brews (drier, less clean notes), compared to doing early on. I suspect as the grinds get more saturated they can break down, so if I stir it’s always early on and then disturb as little as possible.

MWJB

dfk41 Sure a video can’t hurt.

dfk41 it seemed to retain slightly more water. The flavour was ever so slightly stronger.

This makes sense. But, you say the fruit note was more faint?

I’d be looking to grind at 35 & either a quick stir agitate as soon as possible, or no stir/agitation.

dfk41

Video as promised. Again, pleasant enough to drink but absolutely no rapsberries! The only time I got this taste was when the eggs exploded in the microwave….must check back!

MWJB

dfk41 What grind setting was this brew, 35?

The ‘exploding egg’ brew (21g, 35 grind) was, “quite tasty”. What, 7/10?

The stir at 0:55 seems a bit excessive, try doing just enough to visibly wet the grinds, in say 3-4 strokes. I don’t think the 2nd stir at 1:32 is necessary.

I have some of this coffee on the way, we’ll see about the raspberry (other than Skylark, who else has told you it tastes of raspberry…and does the ‘tart’ they refer to have fresh, jam, sweetened? How much different does raspberry tart taste compared to a raspberry Danish, or pie? I like raspberry flavoured stuff, but not keen on raw raspberries.)

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