We all know what's going to happen, and sooner rather than later. I'm expecting energy prices are going to increase across the board by around 50% on gas and electricity. My thoughts then turned to the espresso machine…probably uses more power when it's cold, perhaps as much as 100W per hour..I know some people have cited massive increases in their bills when they have an espresso machine on all day…so I'm preparing, I would imagine the machine will lose only half the energy this way? The underneath towel is to add the extra insulation under the group and keep the top towel wrap in place. I'm already turning green! [upl-image-preview url=//i.imgur.com/sPQzAA6.png]

@"DavecUK"#p4730 Classic Dave’s solution to the problem! 😂😂 I continue to switch the machine off after making coffee. I don’t want the machine to run from 6 am to 9 pm. 😊 Am making a separate thread for green!

me personally, pureplanet went bump on me giving me a massive increase at home, was tied till april 2022 at work my gas and elec have no cap, since march 2021 when i cam out of contract ive seen my monthly elec bill go from £200 to £430 per month, these are out of contract rates atm, its getting crazy

Well, after about 20 minutes of non-use my Sage turns itself off. Plus as it takes only about 6 minutes to get up to temp it shouldn't use too much. After a really good two year fixed deal came to an end in December, we've just gone on to Octopus Go tariff where between 12:30 and 4:30 am the charge is 5p kWh. No good for the coffee machine admittadly unless I'm having a spot of insomnia, but we put our washing machine on for then as that eats electric and I charge my EV then too.

Our tariff is fixed until Aug 23. So, Am good. But, our costs did go up by £50 a month to about £162 pm. Thank God, I went fixed as some one advised flexible. 😊

We changed to Octopus when we were down south, we have always been on a fixed tariff and our bills were around £120 month. We moved up North to Yorkshire and bought a new build our bills are £80 month at most. We renewed to a fixed tariff again in September after a lot of deliberation thinking prices had been stable for some time, so glad we did. Hopefully when it all settles down we can get another fixed rate not sure it will be the same though. All our family are with Octopus they have been really good.

@"LMSC"#p4731 you can because it only takes 15m to warm up, so it's actually worth switching it off if your not going to use it…in fact, even a low power mode would be worthwhile on the Evo, might see if something can be programmed into the motherboards, to actually drop the group temp after a configurable number of minutes of non use. e.g. drop by n C, after n minutes, with brew boiler switching off after n minutes. This is because brew boiler only takes 3 minutes to warm up. In this way a machine could drop into economy (if you enable it) after say 15 minutes and be warmed up again by touching the panel. As soon as the group hits the preset temp, you will be ready to go, probably about 3 or 4 minutes….depending on how low you turn the group down. The energy saving would actually be quite large!

@"DavecUK"#p4762 I am sure you will come up with a solution as an enhancement in the future release. If it can be programmed like a PC - Hibernate, Sleep, Restart and Shut Down! 😬 We mostly make 5 -6 cups in total 2 in the morning, 1 at noon, 1 in the afternoon and 2 in the evening ! Perhaps, decaf in the night.

@"Cuprajake"#p4732 I was with simplicity energy, fortunately they went bust a few months before the energy crisis and I went onto the supplier of last resort British Gas, something called Simplicity Promis until April 2022 which felt like being rodgered up the rear end, but as it turned out was a blessing in disguise. 3p per unit for gas and 17.9 for leccy

I am with octopus on their flexible rate since my fixed rate with them ended at the beginning of December. I am not sure how much I am paying monthly ( was previously £59) as I have just had smart meters fitted and the readings haven’t settled into any pattern but watching the monitor thingy add up the electric units is a bit of a sharp intake of breath whenever the electric shower is used. To make matters worse, my boomerang child has just boomeranged back home to live again and takes two showers a day and wears clothes once before throwing them in the wash. I have been dithering over fixing the rate before April but just cannot commit myself to a tariff that doubles the price of my gas for the next three months even though I know things are going to get very much worse. I switch my machine and grinder off at the wall as soon as I am done.

> @"4W5"#p4814 I am with octopus on their flexible rate since my fixed rate with them ended at the beginning of December. I am not sure how much I am paying monthly ( was previously £59) as I have just had smart meters fitted and the readings haven’t settled into any pattern you must absolutely know the rate per kW hour and standing charge so you can make apples for apples comparisons. They rely on obfuscating these numbers.

Energy Prices

DavecUK

Gagaryn So this purchase alone will save me 120 kWh per month. I expected a saving but was amazed by the magnitude.

Often the case with old fridge freezers. The change can often pay for itself in a short time….Mine is due replacement soon as it’s about 16+ years old.

LMSC Miele dishwasher : Planning to go hand washing starting next month to see the effects on the electricity bill. Our billing cycle is mid month. Will experiment for 1.5 months
Hot water - normally 30 mins x 2 a day. I think we will try 2 × 15 mins once a day for a quick shower for 3.
Should we stop using the Evo 2-3 times a day? Perhaps, switch once in the evening and go filter in the morning ? During the day, it is always filter!

Giphy - Season 3 Neanderthal GIF by SpongeBob SquarePants

Gagaryn

DavecUK

In other good news John Lewis dented the side of the new one while delivering it so they gave me a 25% refund. It was pretty cheap anyway - £500. The dent is invisible as it is next to a wall. At October prices It will pay for itself within seven months. Replacing an old fridge is probably the most effective saving that can be made.

CoyoteOldMan

LMSC Miele dishwasher : Planning to go hand washing starting next month to see the effects on the electricity bill.

FWIW, my diswasher (also Miele) reports using 1 - 1.1 kWh per wash, 10 - 12 l of water with a full machine. Not sure you’d be spending any less with hand washing by the time you consider the extra water and the extra heating for water (which are not on your electricity bill - or at least, we use gas for hot water).

One the Evo - my consumption for the last 30 days, with the machine on at least 3 x day (and one night when we forgot to switch it off…) is 37.8 kWh. That’s about 1.3 kWh/day, which means a kettle on for 35 minutes/day - 10 filters, perhaps? It’s also, at the new price cap of 55p/kWh from October, about 72 p/day. Less than our coffee beans bill…

On the other hand, I found myself this morning making a horrible gusher with the last 13 grams of Chocolate Point left in the grinder. It still tasted nice, but I can’t help the feeling that in other times (a year ago) I would have chucked them in the bin.

LMSC

dfk41 Interesting option without mains power! They would still need an exhaust for carbon monoxide, though.

We were thinking more in terms of energy saving alternatives. Three hassles, which we were debating were dust / ashes, maintenance and dust allergies; my wife and daughter are sensitive to smoke, dust and pollen.

Will have to find out in our social circle if some one has it.

MediumRoastSteam CoyoteOldMan Interesting numbers on the dishwasher and coffee machine. Any hand washing would be mostly luke warm, if not cold.

I am still very skeptical of renewables as an alternative.

Thx

MediumRoastSteam

For the “Tin Lizzy”

On a smart meter this morning, both boilers on:
- 0.150 kWh for the machine to heat up (approx. 20 mins)
- 0.184 kWh after making a coffee
- 0.189 kWh after leaving the machine idling for 3 minutes
- turned machine off
So my morning flat white coffee costs me, at 28p per kWh (I checked my tariff yesterday), 5p in electricity. With the wonderful new prices in October (55p per kWh) that would be 10p. Subsequent coffees would consume approx. 0.034 kWh, approx. 1p (or 2p in this Brave New World of ours)

So, in October, my daily fix will cost me approx. 20p per day in electricity alone.

dfk41

LMSC Log Burners…..@Davec pointed me in a different direction. The log burners are dirty, need maintenance etc etc. Also for me, getting the logs onto my property would either need a lorry with a hi-ab or wheelbarrowing them in. I had not heard of Flue less Gas fires but in essence they run gases through a catalytic converter making them 100% efficient with no need of a flue
https://burley.co.uk/category/flueless-gas-fires/

I had the chap here yesterday. The log fire style bas fire is around £800 to £900 plus fitting. 3.6 kw output, remote control, thermosttically controlled. Since the brief was to supply a heat source to one room in the event of a power cut this will do nicely. They do not need mains power either!

dutchy101

Was reading this about the green tax we pay as part of our bills:

https://fullfact.org/economy/green-levies/

This bit jumped out at me:

“While it is true that some of the money from these costs goes towards large-scale renewable energy projects, they are also used to fund a range of other environmental policies, including improvements to the energy efficiency of homes and business and Feed in Tariffs paid to households for surplus energy generated from renewable sources (like solar panels). ”

Am I being incredibly thick here, or is this claiming that the green tax goes towards paying for energy that people with solar panels sell back to the grid? So we are contributing towards the energy companies buying back energy, which they go on to sell again for profit. Is that what this is actually saying?

dfk41

LMSC They would still need an exhaust for carbon monoxide

You need an approved air vent in the room

DavecUK

LMSC The catalyst takes care of all the carbon monoxide, so that won’t really be a problem. The air vent is to ensure no oxygen depletion.

LMSC

DavecUK Dave, the logs fireplace is too much off a faff and risk, is it?

MediumRoastSteam

Question for those who know: I currently have a standard condensing boiler, and the hot water is stored in a tank in the loft - a 300L tank. The system runs on mains pressure.

Every morning, the hot water in the tank heats up. It comes on occasionally during the day, after washing up or a shower for example - otherwise I believe it’s quite good in terms of insulation.

Question is: given we are a family of 3, would a combi boiler be better for us in terms of efficiency and savings overall? I checked my average gas usage for cooking and heating water will be approx. £2 per day when the new price cap comes into force, at 14p per kWh.

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam You seem to have a mega flow. The tank stores hot water in a pressurised form, does it not ?

We have an old style - cold water tank in the attic. Supposed to be an insulated boiler in the airing cup board. We can see the insulation pad wrapped around the boiler. I think the capacity is about 125-150l. So, 30 mins water gets shower for 2 easily.

£2 a day for cooking and heating is a dream. You are already doing something right. Well done. Please tell us how. :-)

Edit

Cost of switching to combi boiler! Don’t they have to make changes to plumbing and hot water tank?

DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam For the combi, it depends. If you have two showers, possibly not, and they have to be sized larger in terms of kW than a conventional boiler, possibly reducing the effeciency when heating.

The age and efficiency of your existing boiler has a bearing on any decisions.

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam Are you sure? This for cooking and heating water only.

This

MediumRoastSteam my average gas usage for cooking and heating water will be approx. £2 per day when the new price cap comes into force,

is still good with the new prices. We currently pay £164 a month, fixed last year. I think by Sep 2023, when our fixed lapses, we will probably pay 4 x £164. Will go flexible at that time and see!

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC Cost of switching to combi boiler! Don’t they have to make changes to plumbing and hot water tank?

Yes. But those are straight forward changes, I.e: bypass the tanks and the overpressure vessels.

Cost of a new boiler, installation plus conversion would be around £2.5k.

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC £2 a day for cooking and heating is a dream

Are you sure? This for cooking and heating water only.

Thats 44 cubic feet of gas per day, based on 200 cubic feet used since the 10th of July, so approx. 47 days.

According to my calculations, 10 cubic feet of gas is equivalent to 31kwh.

Edit 15 hour later: values of cubic feet above corrected. I forgot to consider the last digit of the meter - therefore I now multiplied the values by 10, now corrected. This correction does not affect any of the subsequent posts.

DavecUK

LMSC Dave, the logs fireplace is too much off a faff and risk, is it?

If you mean a wood burning stove, for many, yes. Plus you have to store the wood. Gas is cheaper and on/off as you need it .

Inspector

We spend 7m3 of gas for hot water/cooking in a month in summer. Which is equivalent to £5.50 in current rates without standing charge. We are a family of 3, we have shower every day, cooking five days a week and our dishwasher also connected to combi boiler hot water outlet.

When winter comes though, for heating we spend 7m3 of gas a day :(

MediumRoastSteam

Inspector We spend 7m3 of gas for hot water/cooking in a month in summer. Which is equivalent to £5.50 in current rates without standing charge

£5 a month in gas? Are you sure? Seems too little?

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK The age and efficiency of your existing boiler has a bearing on any decisions

Boiler is relatively new, bought in 2014.

Inspector

MediumRoastSteam

Yes in July 8m3 and August 7m3 in total.

We would pay approx £360 for gas only a month with new kWh prices this winter though 4 bed mid terraced with loft extension. We would keep loft radiators shut or on 1. Gonna be a real struggle this winter :/

DavecUK

Just a thought, this is what stupid grinning nincompoops look like. (second from left Heiko Maas, I don’t know who the others are).

We are told this is what a nincompoop looks like, because he is orange. So everything he says is rubbish.

This is my bet they’re not laughing now (as Bob Monkhouse used to say) video…but I also bet they still have jobs.

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