I agree with all on the tone on HB. I just posted there yesterday on this same topic and got the following condescending response from a fellow named Jake:
Part of my post:
Hence my question: if you have 2 shots with slightly higher vs slightly lower doses, but the same brew ratio, should the shots not taste the same? Or do other factors (such as headspace or optimal dose for the basket) come into play?
Jake’s response:
_No.
Changing dose and grind setting together, to maintain a similar shot time is essentially the #1 way to change extraction and with it flavor. The fact that changing your dose and grind setting is making your shots taste different is an indication that your taster is working. And so is your equipment. Now. I think your vocabulary is lacking just a bit. Because what you are describing as strength, I think is more likely “punchyness”. Punchyness isn’t a thing you can measure, but generally means that the shot has enough edge to its flavor to punch through the milk. This is not the same thing as strength (which is defined as mass of solids in mass of beverage, often used to calculate extraction yield).
If you read Espresso 101: How to Adjust Dose and Grind Setting by Taste, you’ll find that what you are experiencing is likely in line with what you’d expect in terms of taste. Headspace plays a role, but it is a second order driver. As you lower the dose and tighten the grind, shots tend to taste softer, as extraction goes up. This generally continues until you get fine enough that flow rates become difficult to manage, and your grinder looses resolution to perform consistently at super fine grind settings. It is interesting to note that softer tasting shots are less punchy in milk, but they have higher measured solids (strength) than higher doses with coarser grounds. The higher doses will cut through milk because they tend to be less balanced and more “loud” or “cartoony” in their presentation, even though they are generally extracted less and have lower strength than the low dose, finely ground shots with the same brew ratio and shot time.
So I think you are confusing punchy or bold with strength and they are somewhat paradoxically not related in the way you’d think. Taste is weird._
My reply:
Thanks for the good information, Jake. And for taking the time to respond. I’ve been at this espresso game for way too many years, and the Espresso 101 post was one of the first things I read. I only posted because the taste change caused by installing my Sworks Spacer on my Decent DE1 caused me to think about first principles a little bit. I won’t go into detail on the taste change caused by the excess reduction in headspace, but dose corrections (without grind size changes, so I was not playing with both dose and grind) allowed me to reintroduce abit of headspace and get my shot taste back to normal, while enjoying the benefits of the Sworks. Sheldon at Sworks and John at Decent and the many in the Decent community (including myself) have been looking at headspace, and making adjustments through spacing kits.
So again, thank-you for your time and suggestions. I have one. Your well intentioned reply did come across as being abit um … condescending ….. The fact that you replied means that you are interested in helping people, which is a good thing, but I suggest that you work on your messaging tone. Just a thought and I appreciated your thoughtful information*
PS Jake later offered a sincere apology for the condescending tone. So there are actual human beings at HB.
