They are present at the institutional stand of Tanzania Booth DC-007 From tomorrow till Saturday. I remember these guys from Rimini. Paolo is there. [upl-image-preview url=https://i.imgur.com/3NxUh7L.jpeg]

Hi Dave I have already contacted you on another forum , where you suggested the Evo Leva II is a end game machine - well i got mine last week A full blown EVO LEVA II with all bells and whistles except the lights package - My questions 1- How come the safety system only works when the machine is turned on I thought it was a passive system not active? 2-This machine seems to consume way more water than a E61 Bianca does ? The drip tray fills quickly, Is this normal ? 3-Please inform ACS to include some lubricating grease with the machine for lubricating the piston seals 4-Why does ACS not ship a 26mm basket depth instead of two 31mm 5- the printed user manual is atrocious, badly translated to english and not clear at times 6- i would also add that the furnished tamper could be a little tighter to the basket walls

> @"selmerfudd"#p70998 My questions > > 1- How come the safety system only works when the machine is turned on I thought it was a passive system not active? > > 2-This machine seems to consume way more water than a E61 Bianca does ? The drip tray fills quickly, Is this normal ? > > 3-Please inform ACS to include some lubricating grease with the machine for lubricating the piston seals > > 4-Why does ACS not ship a 26mm basket depth instead of two 31mm > > 5- the printed user manual is atrocious, badly translated to english and not clear at times > > 6- i would also add that the furnished tamper could be a little tighter to the basket walls 1. It requires enough water to be in the chamber to work, it's a passive system in that you don't need to do anything, but if the machine is switched off for example, there's no water in the lever cylinder and the lever would just fly up. It's designed to save you if the portafilter comes undone during a shot…the cup will smash, but the lever will come up slowly. 2. yes, when you pull the lever down, you fill the piston chamber. If your shot is say 32g, the other 25 ish grams of water will simply be ejected as clean water into the drip tray, In a lever without the auto pressure release system, you have to remove the cup and the same amount of water drains thru the coffee. **This is totally normal for all lever machines.** 3. This isn't as easy as it sounds…Invest in a tube of Molycote 111 it will last you a lifetime. The Evo2 is not very needy for seals or lubrication, I know someone whose seals are well over 3 years old and he has never lubricated or replaced them. I would recommend once every 6 months to 1 year (more likely to be 1 year). This machine has a very different group to say a Londinium, where you may have read a lot about very regular lubrication and frequent seal replacement. 4. I have recommended they also ship a 26mm, they probably just have not got round to it yet. 5. All things Italian, but it's not complicated 6. I thought mine was on the very tight side, surprised yours is loose, as it should be the same. If they are too tight, they can jam when they go deeper, or in alternative baskets e.g. My 26mm deep one. A few niggles about manual and tamper I guess, but for me it certainly is end game, super stable, quiet and produces fabulous shots that have that certain something only the LSM group can give. I don't hanker after any other machines.

@"DavecUK"#p71008 Thank you for your response , please understand that my comments do not reflect a negative view of the machine - I love the coffee it produces but as an engineer we are always wanting to refine so please take my comments here as a simple wish list 1-wish i had known about the 26 I would have asked Paolo to include one, 2-on another note there is one issue that could have been thought out better - Let us say the auto flush setting is set to 4.9 bar for a double shot and the pre-infusion setting is set to 5.5 bar- in this case because the pump cycles its way to the full five bars of pre-infusion instead of ramping slowly - and does so in pulses of pump activity causing a bouncing pressure as the grinds absorb the pre-infusion water -- the auto flush will engage and empty the group of its water during pre-infusion --this could have been thought out and thus preventing the auto flush to engage so early 3-what about water quality does the water used need to have a mineral content in order for the probes in the boiler to work correctly , can one use distilled or demineralized water - in other videos and machines you used RO water - how did you manage to get the water level probes to function correctly 4-did ACS ever consider a standby mode at a lower boiler temp 5- the "machine on" ,"machine off" programing leaves a lot to be desired - To only have one program per day is inconvenient, ACS could do better ! it would have been preferable to set a programmable "on time duration" then reverting to stand by , as example a 2.5 "hours on" and then revert to standby . Added to this the daily programming would then basically be to program the "COME ON TIMES ONLY: - this is the way another high end machine works and it works really really well , very flexible !! Example , the operator programs a 2.5 hour "on time before standby or even off if the design cant permit stand by " then he can go to step 2 and program this to happen on Monday at 6 AM , 11 AM, 3 PM, and 7 PM - and each other day with possibility of different "on times" every day

Buy a pack of these: # Meross Smart Plug with Energy Monitoring, Mini Smart WiFi Plug Work with Alexa, Google Home, SmartThings, Smart Socket Remote Control Timer Plug, No Hub Required, 13A, 4 Packs

> @"selmerfudd"#p71014 Thank you for your response , please understand that my comments do not reflect a negative view of the machine - I love the coffee it produces but as an engineer we are always wanting to refine so please take my comments here as a simple wish list > > 1-wish i had known about the 26 I would have asked Paolo to include one, > > 2-on another note there is one issue that could have been thought out better - > > Let us say the auto flush setting is set to 4.9 bar for a double shot and the pre-infusion setting is set to 5.5 bar- in this case because the pump cycles its way to the full five bars of pre-infusion instead of ramping slowly - and does so in pulses of pump activity causing a bouncing pressure as the grinds absorb the pre-infusion water – the auto flush will engage and empty the group of its water during pre-infusion –this could have been thought out and thus preventing the auto flush to engage so early > > 3-what about water quality does the water used need to have a mineral content in order for the probes in the boiler to work correctly , can one use distilled or demineralized water - in other videos and machines you used RO water - how did you manage to get the water level probes to function correctly > > 4-did ACS ever consider a standby mode at a lower boiler temp 1. You can buy them relatively cheaply from Amazon, or extremely cheaply from Chinese web sites. ACS alreay include more useful bits and pieces/accessories than many other manufacturers. Including things like Molykote, baskets etc.. simply pushes up the sale price. Unfairly against other machines offering less. Also not everyone wants the same things. e.g. They actually include a proper tamper and portafilter ring, other manufacturers don't. 2. If the auto release is set to 4.9 bar, that is very low, but fair enough, lets examine the straw man. The auto flush is engaging because at 5.5 bar measured by the machines main board and the auto end of shot pressure measured by the small board on the tiny display, could be out slightly. 5.5 bar is far to high for preinfusion really and so close to a 6 bar programmed limit where the system detects you have moved from preinfusion to main shot. This changes the timer and activates the release function, so it can now operate. As the release pressure is only slightly lower than the group and during PI the pressure can drop slightly…especially as you pull the lever down, then the autorelease will immediately go off. If you really have a need to use those values for PI and AR, you are better off selecting manual release and pressing the middle button at your desired pressure. In this way the programmed design so the machine works correctly for 99.9% of users, won't prevent you from doing what you want. You might say why not have settable values for all this, but this would make the complexity level in the small board hugely complex for most normal users 3. No, machines will function correctly on water with a TDS of 3%, this is true of all machines. RODI which has 0% will probably function as well, but I have never used RODI water. 4. Yes, the Vesuvius has this function, but the Vostok doesn't. This is because the entire machine is ready to use in 15m from Cold, and most prosumer E61 standby systems take about the same amount of time As for all the other stuff around timers The Vesuvius had a slightly more complex timer (it used the same main board), but it's hardly ever used as it's much easier and more flexible to use a smart switch and program it to do what you want via a phone app or Alexia routines. The main board used is the same for the Vesuvius, Evo2, Vostok 1, 2 and 3 group. It's an older tech board, but hugely reliable and made by Gicar, it has a limited amount of programming and inputs it can accept. In fact for the Evo/Vostock extra input pins had to be added! The Vesuvius had one set of programming, the Vostok another and neither can accept more programming, they are close to their limit. Changes by Gicar are very difficult to get, taking sometimes years, but always 9 months or so are hugely expensive, and often they make mistakes. This is because very large manufacturers like Lelit all get priority. This is why ACS have developed their own main board to move away from Gicar, which most manufacturers use, the rest use Proelind.. ACS will be using their own main board in the Falcon I, and gradually roll out it's use to their entire range. This board is an "entire powerful system on a chip", graphics, memory, WiFi, Blutooth, processor etc.. It will then interface with other daughter boards and components, like the auto shot release board….using a CAN bus system, just like in cars. This will be more advanced than any other machines on the market. This main board has the advantages of being very robust and much much smaller than the current mainboard and able to accept a huge amount of programming and variety of displays of any resolution and size, as well as great software version user updatability as new functions become available. It's far better ACS continue to develop what is the future, than throw **large** amounts of money in adding a few new functions to old Gicar tech.

> @"selmerfudd"#p71014 Let us say the auto flush setting is set to 4.9 bar for a double shot and the pre-infusion setting is set to 5.5 bar- in this case because the pump cycles its way to the full five bars of pre-infusion instead of ramping slowly - and does so in pulses of pump activity causing a bouncing pressure as the grinds absorb the pre-infusion water – the auto flush will engage and empty the group of its water during pre-infusion –this could have been thought out and thus preventing the auto flush to engage so early it is so difficult to believe that you are any kind of engineer, reading your 2 posts as there seems to be a clear misunderstanding of some basic points. you expect the safety system to work with no water. there's no polite answer ( to an actual engineer) but Dave managed to find one!! why would you use such parameters in real life other than to prove the machine works as it should and the parameters are nonsense. set realistic figures like pre infusion 2.5 - 3 bars dump 7 to 8 bars depending on output. im using 21.5g in the 32mm basket to get 48g out not sure what country you are in 26mm basket https://www.bluestarcoffee.eu/en/IMS-Competition-San-Marco-Basket/m-3422.aspx Tamper : https://www.bluestarcoffee.eu/en/Precision-Coffee-Tamper-544mm/m-5414.aspx im in the UK and am sure there are many suppliers. I actually prefer the ACS basket to the IMS! As for the drip tray. Plumb it in, and the inlet water. Its next level, you just use it. fills and empties itself. clean the drip tray every few weeks. Dave doesn't agree with me on this! I cant imagine a machine like this in use and not plumbed in. Do you add water to your washing machine using a bucket every time you use it > @"selmerfudd"#p71014 4-did ACS ever consider a standby mode at a lower boiler temp > > 5- the “machine on” ,“machine off” programing leaves a lot to be desired - To only have one program per day is inconvenient, ACS could do better ! > > it would have been preferable to set a programmable “on time duration” then reverting to stand by , as example a 2.5 “hours on” and then revert to standby . Added to this the daily programming would then basically be to program the "COME ON TIMES ONLY: - this is the way another high end machine works and it works really really well , very flexible !! Mate, its 2024. there's this thing called WiFi. buy a wifi plug. you can have as many schedules as you want as well as "hey google turn evo on" whenever you want. if you forget to turn it off "hey google turn evo off" will respond to the rest later after more coffee! P.S im a standard user . no link at all to ACS (or Dave). my opinions are my own based on owning and using the machine. There are a vast array of opinions for a single machine. you cant be an engineer. No lighting kit on top of not understanding basic parameter logic. ,🫣😋🤔 [URL=https://i.imgur.com/0KoL1iJ.jpeg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/0KoL1iJ.jpeg[/IMG][/URL]

@"Adrianmsmith"#p71017 Adrianmsmith,, I do not know who or where u are , and i am going to be kind with my rebuttal - but where you got the idea that I expect the safety system to work with no water i will never know --to my knowing the safety system has not been described as to how it functions, as you know it has been kept quite hush hush by ACS- as well as by Dave Corby -whether it functions on a hydraulic or a purely mechanical system is anyones guess and I have not opened the group chamber nor looked at the piston to see how it functions , and actually nor will I do so ! As for the rest of your comments - no i prefer not to go the WIFI plug route if possible I like stuff integrated as is the bluetooth and weblink in my car and in my Nikon etc etc .I do not want another gadget for every feature . As for plumbed in - no -- my machine is too far from a water source and even so i would not remodel my house around an espresso machine and plumb it in- then requiring another gadget just to sense a possible water leak in any connections. As for pre-infusion values - this machine does not hit the 12ML/sec water debit to get a good puck saturation - i do not need high bars for pre infusion but I do need a high water output - the ideal pre infusion process - is to immediately start with a high water output for maximum saturation for a short time because the puck provides resistance especially to pre infusion - (without a high debit or pressure, for an instant or two, you will end up wetting the top layer of the puck producing an over extraction of the puck top and under extraction of its bottom,) this is well known - ( precisely why a Slayer does not pre-infuse -- it simply provides a more gentle extraction process because the water flow is too low during the first part of the coffee making process and the puck bottom is never saturated correctly ) ##### At this point u might say but i see drops coming from the porta-filter into the cup - those first drops are not a product of a good preinfusion they are but seepage from the top layer and they are already saturated so they cannot provide pre infusion to the the puck bottom , ***it needs to be done by a high water output and a good pressure to push down the water to the bottom puck layer then ""a back off time" where pressure is backed off and permitted to dissipate through the puck ( this might even be more so true of a deeper basket like the LSM 54 mm size ) -*** resulting in what you would want a final pre-infusin of about 2- bars -- ##### **BUT THIS SHOULD ONLY OCCUR ONCE THE PUCK IS FULLY SATURATED - NOT BEFORE !!! TO SATURATE FULLY YOU NEED MORE THAN 2-3 BARS FOR A VERY SHORT BURST OF TIME OR YOU NEED A VERY HIGH WATER OUTPUT-** *like La Marzocco does at 12ml/sec initial flow !!* I emailed re this with Paolo at ACS and he assured me the Leva does not hit 12ml/sec. My guess is that was the reason ACS abandoned the vibe as well as the gear pump due to long ramp up time and very low water output -YOU CANNOT PRE-INFUSE CORRECTLY WITH A VIBE PUMP - YOU WILL END UP WITH A COFFEE WITH NO MOUTHFEEL !

Don't pre infusion at 5bars that's pointless imo The Evo works best with a quick infusion I used 5s Most replace the acs baskets with ims comp versions. Much better As for the programming side of things that personal preference, but the machine warms up in 15 mins. Rodi or distilled shouldn't be used, you can with a mineral added say potassium bicarbonate The Evo really extracts high so use temp as a tool to change extraction not infusion The long slow londinium drip drip drip don't work on it.

Hi Cuprajake please read my response to Adriansmith as to why the needs for high pe-infusion values at the onset of pre infusion !

Ok If you asked the flow rate and it wasn't sufficient why buy it Fwiw the full rate of the gear pump was quicker Peace out As I have the distinct feeling you love the sound of your own voice way more than mine

ACS - At World Of Coffee - Copenhagen

Adrianmsmith

JonWoo187 I’m not the typical brand fanboy that just has to jump at the latest fad. To each their own, but the machine being discussed looks like a bunch of traditional/modern parts slapped together in an effort to make something stand out…. a polished ****

to me you are not a typical fanboy, you are a typical pompous fool here to try and cause trouble. The only reason I answer you is in the hope someone does not read your comments and think you know what you are talking about and act on your comments. otherwise you simply need to be on everyone’s ignore list.

you obviously do not know what you are talking about or if you do you choose to ignore fact to generate animosity.

you are not worth trying to correct as you are too set in your bad ways.

i do not know who or what you are. I really pity your subordinates.

selmerfudd

Hi all ,, sorry for not being present recenty I was dealing wth family issues - can someone help me understand this a little better ! As I comprehend ( i might be wrong ) ,,

The safety system uses an active/passive method for slowing down the water evacuation from the water chamber in the cylinder , i wrote “active” because it needs the evacuation solenoid to be in the correct position and passive in its use of a restricted water flow through the piston provided by a small hole in the piston to provide the safety system to work correctly .

Why did ACS choose to design the system to have a normally open solenoid when the machine is powered off and normally closed when the unit is on , would not the opposite have been more logical and a better design ?

In my understanding the solenoid spends its time mostly electrically engaged in maintaining itself closed when powered on , and reverts to normally open when powered off - would this not shorten the life of the solenoid ?

DavecUK

selmerfudd Why did ACS choose to design the system to have a normally open solenoid when the machine is powered off and normally closed when the unit is on , would not the opposite have been more logical and a better design ?

They didn’t… the solenoid is NC when not receiving power and opens to vent when power is applied to it.

You can test this for yourself quite easily, use a blind filter, load the group, then switch the power off at the wall socket.

selmerfudd

DavecUK

Ok thanks ,,then please help me understand - if it is NC when powered off why then does the machine require power to render the safety system functional ,,why does it not function when powered off?

thx again

Adrianmsmith

selmerfudd

You will need to explain your thinking there.

In Dave’s example above it actually would if you lifted (with the power still off) the lever and somehow managed to knock the portafilter off!!

All the safety system is, is a restriction in flow due to the blind cylinder liner with just the 1 outlet hole .

No hole at all in the piston as you suggest above , just a restriction in flow due to the 1mm diameter hole im an otherwise sealed cylinder (not counting the inlets).

I think tou are overthinking it (still).

selmerfudd

Adrianmsmith

I might be overthinking it yes , not sure myself ! then let me rephrase my question ,, , then why does it not function when powered off ? thx again

Adrianmsmith

selmerfudd

In the example dave gave it would as the cylinder would he full.

With the power off water will not fill the cylinder.

The system can only function with water in the cylinder.

Why would you even think it could or need it to work with the power off

selmerfudd

Adrianmsmith

I see ,,,thx

selmerfudd

Adrianmsmith

I do not need it to work with power off , it so happned that as I was pulling a shot the water was low during the fill cycle , and the machine shut down , not realizing this I was about to let go the lever luckily I held on ,

Surely ACS could have programmed a protection for “last espresso” and prevent shutdowns like this, seeing there is no water level indicator on the machine at least on mine there is none !

Also when this happens the left side display turns off but the right side stays fully functional and well lit , this fooled me !

Cuprajake

When some random tries to pull it down 😂

DavecUK

selmerfudd Surely ACS could have programmed a protection for “last espresso” and prevent shutdowns like this, seeing there is no water level indicator on the machine at least on mine there is none !

They did, there is a time delay, but using the flush lever then starting the shot after a short time can defeat this.

I don’t like the fact the display switches off when this happens, but it is because it is powered by the same source as the pump and a limitation of the firmware on the Gicar board. When in the future ACS start using their own mainboard, this can be coded out.

Of course the lever will still work normally, the safety system is still operational and the machine is in dumb mode, so you need to move the cup as in ordinary levers.

selmerfudd

DavecUK

Ah I see ,,i use the flush lever to get some water to warm up the cup ! I hardly need the service boiler so cups stay cool on the cup tray !

selmerfudd

""“When in the future ACS start using their own mainboard, this can be coded out.”""

Is there a good reason to use a propriatary board and not go with a fully Android program with an external tablet. Seems to me a fully android app/program would be easier to update tweek the operation etc etc. ?? To me it seems backwards going with more hardware , complicated processes are better dealt with software .

DavecUK

selmerfudd Is there a good reason to use a propriatary board and not go with a fully Android program with an external tablet.

yes, because they will be using an SoC board and can bus for comms between peripherals. Use of a tables, would still require a bord within the machine, even if the tablet is connected. Plus the tablets break, android gets updated etc..

Lastly many people don’t want to grab their phone or a tablet, to make a coffee.

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