Ok I’ve some followup on above issues. After some research I started using BWT best save filter bags, I saw some reviews that they work well as long I give them about 12 hours after a water refill to treat the water. This is no issue for me, because I only drink coffee in the morning and sometimes afternoon.

Unfortunately this morning after about 15 minutes of turning on the machine there was a hissing noise and steam coming from the back of the machine (where the vent is). So I opened it up and noticed steam escaping from the central tube on top of the steam boiler. I let it cool down, made sure the tube was secured well, but after heating up it started hissing again. I also see some corrosion happening on the steam boiler and all the internals are wet because of the excessive steaming. I attached a photo and uploaded a short video to dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uujaa7re4vum25p/IMG_8886.MOV?dl=0

Is this something that could be fixed without sending it in for repair? Am I right that I’m seeing some corrosion, or are these normal spots? If so, then I think it needs to be repaired by Lelit, hopefully under warranty, since it’s about 15 months old.

EDIT: I added a second photo showing the corrosion better.

    bk85 Is this something that could be fixed without sending it in for repair?

    You should contact the retailer if the machine is still under warranty and have it repaired.

    I don’t know how those push-fit connectors work, but it’s important that they are done properly. There was a video on Lelit insider, let me see if I can find it, in case you want to have a go yourself.

    Very basic, but take a look at 3’ and 9’

      bk85 I saw some reviews that they work well

      How do they work?

      • bk85 replied to this.

          Rob1

          As a test I used the same water in my water boiler last few months, and I don’t see any scale build up, so I think they work well. This is a good review, but it’s in German: . They actually They say it doesn’t work well, because it takes 8-12 hours for it too work well. But I don’t think that’s a problem with the right workflow : ) If you give the pads enough time, they work really well.

          Thank you for your reply @MediumRoastSteam. I just contacted the seller of my machine, but they answer they will only repair it under warranty if I can prove the defect was already there when I received the machine from them. This of course is impossible and a misinterpretation of EU law. And a bad service to say the least… So I’ll see how I can solve that.

          • Rob1 replied to this.

              bk85

              When I asked how they work I meant are they ion exchange or something else? What do they do to the water to remove or negate the hardness, and how effectively do they do it?

              A water boiler that heats to 100c won’t give a good indication of what you’ll get when you heat it under pressure to whatever you have the service boiler in the Elizabeth set to (160c?)….I know it can get much hotter than my boiler by design.

              Scaling in a service boiler is always going to be an issue over time with water that has hardness and alkalinity from bicarbonates, and the hotter the boiler runs, and the more you use it without flushing it out, the worse it will get.

                  Rob1 Although quite off topic. I think they are Ion-exchange, you might find more information on their website: https://www.bwt-wam.com/en/products/tank-solutions/bwt-bestsave/

                  I didn’t use the bags inside my boiler, but in a separate jug in my fridge. And the filter bag inside my machine is in the water tank. So the water/bag never got heated. I think that’s their intended use.

                  • Rob1 replied to this.

                      bk85 Although quite off topic. I think they are Ion-exchange, you might find more information on their website:

                      You’re talking about a scale problem even though you’re using filters so I don’t really understand why you think it’s off topic to actually understand how the filters work. Both the BWT and in tank filters work in the same way - ion exchange.

                      This goes some way to reducing hardness and, depending on how hard the water is to begin with, can reduce it to very low levels. Unfortunately, it does nothing to change alkalinity. With very high alkalinity you’ll still get scale even with low hardness. That you aren’t seeing scale when you boil the water isn’t particularly relevant as your machine operates at temperatures above boiling point. At 100c, with 40mg/l alkalinity, you’ll only see scale forming if hardness is over 134mg/l. The problem remains that when heated to very high temperatures, the filtered water will deposit scale if there is hardness and alkalinity present e.g at 160c, if alkalinity is 40mg/l from carbonate sources then you’ll see scale forming with hardness above 15mg/l, an ion exchange filter will likely not reduce hardness below this point, and alkalinity will probably be higher than 40mg/l so you have an even lower tolerance. To put it simply, you are seeing scale form in the service boiler either because your filtration is not good enough, or because you aren’t draining the service boiler regularly enough to refresh the water and flush out the concentrated minerals in there…..or it could very easily be a combination of those things.

                      With regards to getting the machine repaired under warranty, sorry to say I don’t think you stand a chance. It may not need a repair, could just need to be descaled. But if it does, and damage is a result of scale build-up (or running a machine that is leaking as a result), that is not something the manufacturer can control so they aren’t at fault.

                      EDIT: Oh, I see you’re focusing on the compression tube and the steam. Well, the scale build-up still applies. However, I don’t see any corrosion aside from tarnishing to numbering on a bolt. Certainly, nothing that warrants repair. I can’t remember exactly but I think the brownish mark you see close to the hose on the boiler is flux from welding or something along those lines. Difficult to really see from the picture but it’s unlikely to be rust. Could also be burned on residue from the water after it has evaporated.

                          Rob1 Ok sorry, I didn’t expect scaling could still be the problem, because I expected the BWT bags to work. Thank you for the extensive explanation about scaling and your response on the tarnishing. It’s quite frustrating that water is such a complex topic for espresso machines. I was hoping I found the right solution now.

                          I’ll check the hose connection myself then and do another descale routine, hopefully that will solve this issue. And take a look at a better way to prevent scaling.

                            2 years later

                            I use bottled water from Sainsburys in UK Ca 40 mg/l Mg 20mg/l Solids 220 mg/l and from LeClerc in France they have very low Ca 4.8 mg/l and 1.7 Mg and dissolved solids 74mg/l. Both are quite cheap and I don’t have room on my worktop for DaveC’s table top deioniser. Any way I think the purchase cost and filters cost more than represent VFM for me if you include the opportunity cost of the hardware and filters.

                            I hope the Sainsburys will be OK. When I checked the spec at first I misread the table and thought it was per l but now I see its per 100ml!

                            Lelit Elizabeth (2) , Eureka Oro Mignon Single Dose, Mignon Mk2 (converted to single dose), Aerolatte Mini grinders(2), cafetières, Bodum K1218 Vacuum

                            • MWJB replied to this.

                              MBdoc Neither of these options are suitable, you could add a little sodium bicarbonate to the Le Clerc water to achieve a bicarbonate level of 60mg/L (alkalinity of 50mg/L as CaCO3). Can you not find Volvic.

                                Thank you for this advice. Why add bicarbonate- ? Just for the taste which we think is OK.

                                Can get Volvic (12/8/130) which might be better than Sainsburys but no better than Le Clerc for hardness and solids.

                                Lelit Elizabeth (2) , Eureka Oro Mignon Single Dose, Mignon Mk2 (converted to single dose), Aerolatte Mini grinders(2), cafetières, Bodum K1218 Vacuum

                                • MWJB replied to this.

                                  MBdoc Water that is too low in bicarbonate/alkalinity can be corrosive, so you are looking for a balance where you produce as little scale as possible, but also protect any metal in your machine.

                                  In this respect, Volvic is better than Le Clerc.