I watched a YouTube video from Lance Hedrick yesterday where he suggested that 58mm espresso baskets might not be the best choice for the best espresso. Interested in whether anyone here has any thoughts on the matter? 🤔

@"JimmyP"#p69629 A topic with multiple discussion threads on Reddit, H-B, etc -- the net seems to be no, diameter is not the factor; bed depth is. Use larger doses with 58mm to achieve greater depth. Old news except it seems, to Lance.

@"BrendaninBrooklyn"#p69640 Ok, thank you. This stuff is still new to me and I’m not familiar with the stuff you mention!

@"BrendaninBrooklyn"#p69640 So why aren’t people using big doses in big baskets with 58mm? Most people I encounter don’t do that? 🤔

@"BrendaninBrooklyn"#p69652 @"wintoid"#p69656 What dose are you using with the Robot?

49mm better than 58mm?

BrendaninBrooklyn

JimmyP You are welcome. I believe many do based on the threads I read. No first-hand knowledge though as my La Pavoni is 49mm. If you Google likely you’ll find the same threads. Have fun !

JimmyP

BrendaninBrooklyn

wintoid What dose are you using with the Robot?

JimmyP

BrendaninBrooklyn I’m not convinced. Most I encounter are using 18-20g doses in baskets rated the same. I think very few are using the big doses (26-28g) to achieve significantly deeper beds.

wintoid

My history with espresso has been a succession of levers (Ponte Vecchio, Caravel, Cremina etc) with less than 58mm baskets. When I got the Robot, which is 58mm, everything else was eclipsed.

So personally, I have it in my head that a wider flatter bed might be better. Or maybe the Robot is just that good!

BrendaninBrooklyn

wintoid I think highly of the Robot, and would happily own one. However threads on H-B from its’ start, and especially around 2009, were very active in this topic. The general conclusion, although plenty of other factors come into play, is bed depth matters. There has been some more recent discussion of this there and on the Odyssey Argos Discord, where some members are adding 49mm billet baskets with good results. Until I add an Argos I have no direct evidence. However, this is still quite old news, except to Lance.

wintoid

BrendaninBrooklyn I’m happy to accept the views of people with more experience than myself, especially as espresso often seems to be such a finely judged pursuit. I feel that with the same grinders, the Robot channels so much less for me than anything that came before. It’s also possible that my Robot beds were fairly deep anyway, as my dose definitely went up.

I drink filter 99% of the time now anyway. My Duo’s espresso burrs are barely seasoned. The Robot is an attractive ornament and talking point.

InfamousTuba

BrendaninBrooklyn However, this is still quite old news, except to Lance.

Lance says it is an old news in the video right at the start. The thing he is doing that is new is testing with two different diameter baskets on the same machine, dosed the same and trying to account for headspace in the basket and then looking at extraction.

He even mentions using a big VST basket (26g) to achieve a bigger bed depth on 58mm machines

BrendaninBrooklyn

wintoid My Duo just arrived last evening ;-) IfI may ask, why mainly filter instead of espresso?

BrendaninBrooklyn

InfamousTuba Thank you. As a rule I do not watch YouTube and the new H-B thread did not make your point clear.

wintoid

JimmyP I was using anything from 16-20g

Cuprajake

who wants to drink 26g doses?

BrendaninBrooklyn

Cuprajake MBA, Law School, & Med students ;-)

JimmyP

Cuprajake Exactly. A 26g dose is too much caffeine for me. That’s why I found Hedrick’s video particularly interesting. I would be happy drinking 15g.

dfk41

Cuprajake who wants to drink 26g doses?

Content creators obviously!

wintoid

BrendaninBrooklyn I’m into manual stuff generally. Film cameras, old razors from the early 1900s, hand grinders. Once I got an electric grinder, everyone else in the house started drinking coffee because they didn’t have to faff with handgrinders. The Duo is better than any handgrinder I’ve ever had. So we tend to make pots, using the Hario 03 size pot, with the Orea BigBoy brewer (and Chemex papers). Best coffee we’ve ever had.

BrendaninBrooklyn

wintoid We are fellow travelers ;-) Niche Z, Niche D, Kinu M47, Commandante C40, Pietro and I love film and film cameras ;-) I’m experimenting with a range of brewers in addition to my lever. At some point I’ll add an Argos to have direct / spring 58mm / 49mm in one compact machine. I’ll not try to predict where this will take my wife and I coffee-wise. Did you change your coffee bean preferences when you moved to filter?

BrendaninBrooklyn

JimmyP I love coffee but not caffeine ;-) Perhaps I’ll watch this one.

Cuprajake

JimmyP well all you need is a $200 basket and away you go…

wintoid

BrendaninBrooklyn Yeah for me it was Pharos, Lido, Roscoe, HG One, 1zpresso, C40, Mazzer Omega, some of which I still have and can’t bear to sell.

Along the way with espresso, I would have drunk things like Rave Italian Job, or Coffee Compass stuff. I wouldn’t drink that filter. I did go lighter on the bean with filter, but have come back towards medium roast lately, because basically we like coffee-tasting coffee. Family favourite tasting notes are always nutty, caramel, chocolate and not loganberry, star anise, bubblegum. It’s not just me, there’s a crowd to please. Currently loving the Jolly Bean Roastery’s Ugandan bean.

BrendaninBrooklyn

Cuprajake Too late; they are sold out!

JimmyP

Cuprajake Indeed. I’m looking forward to trying one 🙂👍

BrendaninBrooklyn

wintoid Some lovely grinders ;-)

My wife and I are just starting to work our way through a roaster list in conjunction with the Coffee Atlas. No idea where this will take us, but fun to do. Just the two of us and we mainly agree on wine, ale, tea, brandy, whisky (well, less so here), so hopefully also on coffee.

Cuprajake

BrendaninBrooklyn think most were before tbh, i looked a while ago,