Looking for advice on lever machine and grinder

plouf

Following a trip to Naples a few months ago, I literally fell in love with “lever espresso” and we went all around town to taste different coffees and machines (with a lever, of course). Just before we went there, I was ready to pull the trigger on a ECM Synchronika, but, of course, not anymore :-)

Back home, I looked at the ACS (not sure which one yet, though), find your forum and read carefully everything for months, now.

Looking for advice, my first question, though, won’t be on espresso machines but on grinders. First of all, I can see than many of you own a Niche 2. I was looking at the Ceado’s but see that for different reasons it’s not the most recommended grinder on this forum.

But my main problem is not only the choice of a good grinder, it’s about the different types of coffee that we will learn to make in the future.

For example, I like espressos and am not ready to compromise on the learning curve to find the best process and the best coffees. My wife, on the contrary, prefers lungo style and drinks some of them during the day.

And here is the issue. Lungos seem to need coarser grinding than espresso. I read that if you use the same grind for both, espressos will be under-extracted and lungos will be too strong and bitter. And changing the grind on the grinder depending of what you’re about to brew would be considered bad practice, if I read correctly.

I don’t fancy having two grinders, of course. Nor would I get a set of two burrs for the Niche 2 and change the burr many times a day :-)

Would you please give me some clues to address the issue?

dfk41

plouf I am so tempted to say buy what suits you matey and your wife takes second place! I do not mean that in a horrible way but it is true. In coffee, finding a single item that is capable of spanning 2 brewing arenas is neigh on impossible, so why try? I am a lever owner (ACS Evo Leva Mark One) that I have owned ever since the very first batch were released in June 2021 and am still delighted with it. The style of coffee you mention is a darker roasted bean. As a generalisation you might find you get a better flavour profile from a Niche Zero that is a conical burr than a Niche Duo that is a flat burr. You would need to do a side by side to find out. Just yesterday I did a side by side between the Niche Zero and a Solo T64 fitted with SSP Red Speed burrs (flat, 64mm) using a darker roasted bean and I actually preferred the Niche which some will not agree with, but it is a personal thing. SO, my advice to you is state where about’s you are and see if you can find a member somewhere near to you and go try their gear. I do not think many on here will tell you to go past the ACS Evo Leva for many many reasons. As far as the grinder is concerned, you can listen to the opinion of others but you do not drink opinions!

plouf

Thanks for your answer, dfk41! Could you please elaborate a bit on the comparison between the Niche Zero and the Niche Duo on the topic of darker roasted bean?

dfk41

plouf I had a friend round on Sunday who has a Lelit Elizabeth but he has not even opened the box and has owned it for 18 months. He wanted a grinder around £500. I had the two mentioned. Making sure both grinders were dialled in correctly, and using the same beans in both (Java Jampit) the taste from the nIche was more ‘earthy’ and fuller with nice mouthfeel. The T 64 the shot was slightly thinner and a completely different set of tasting notes. I am not very good at describing flavours but both of us preferred the Niche. That said though, if I had another friend around then the opposite could have been found which is why it is important to try before you buy

plouf

Really make sense, many thanks again.

Tal

Some grinders are pretty good at going back and forth between settings, my Eureka Mignon Facile and Specialita, while superb grinders. You wouldn’t want to switch beans more often than a bag at a time, as the dial was tiny and very sensitive to change. Tiny adjustment had a big impact on shot times.

I have replaced both Eureka grinders with a Niche Duo, bought from the forum, and I can switch between beans quite happily without worry that I’ll be miles off each time. So I think a niche Zero or duo could suit your needs.

I doubt a lungo shot requires that significant a change in grind settings that you’d warrant a second grinder for it.

Cuprajake

tbf the difference you’re wanting is only a minute change

so you could simply up dose or down dose, or change your grind, niche zero would work well for this imo, and is a good entry level (£500 - mind blown) grinder,

be warned though if you want to move to lighter beans in the future you more than likely will want a flat grinder, by then you will be well down the rabbit hole, and be able to justify a second grinder on the counter,

have you thought about an americano vs lungo

plouf

Hi Cuprajake, and thanks for your reply.

Two interesting points in your message:
a) tell me if I read you well: darker roast is better grinded with a conical burr (like the Niche Zero) while lighter beans (or roasts, if I’m correct) would rather ask for a flat burr (like the Niche Duo). I know I probably simplify a bit too much but is it the idea you explained?

b) in my mind, americano and lungo where quite synonymous. Looks like there is a difference though. I should make some research this morning :-)

cheers for now

MediumRoastSteam

plouf in my mind, americano and lungo where quite synonymous. Looks like there is a difference though.

In very simplistic terms:

Americano: pour an espresso over 180ml of water or so. The shorter version of this is a long black, where you pour an espresso over 60ml of water or so.
Lungo: keep running the espresso shot for longer than usual.

Cuprajake

Yes and no

There’s subtle differences if you have both grinders next to each other

Not the vast gap online folk would make you believe. But when it comes to the niche zero I found it not the best for lighter roasts offering a bit of astringency Vs the duo and my mazzer.

Most grinders will be adequate for what you want it comes down to looks and ease of use. Which the zero offers so it’s a great starting point and has good resale value when you out grow it

plouf

MediumRoastSteam

Non stop learning for me, on Coffeetime :-)

Thanks for clarifying!

Cuprajake

Or dilute less haha

36g shot and 30g of water 😂👍

dang2484

My 2p’s worth as I’ve had a Niche Zero for about 5yrs and used it for everything (espresso, pour over, light, dark etc). I’ve just got a 64mm flat grinder and do notice the difference. I much prefer the flat burr even for medium and dark roasts. I found the zero made all coffee more bitter and less complex and gave decaf’s an earthy quality that I don’t get with the flat burr profile.

I much prefer the Niche for it’s workflow design, consistency and simplicity. It really is a zero retention grinder though. I’m sure the Duo is of the same level!

MediumRoastSteam

dang2484 I’ve just got a 64mm flat grinder

Not all 64mm flat burr grinders are the same. What did you get?

dang2484

MediumRoastSteam the T64 with SSP HU burrs.

Adrianmsmith

for my 2p worth….

im relatively new to this group and came here loving my Synchronika

im now of the opinion e61 is so last century, but still not sold on the need to go fully digital. im sure there are some decent machines if you are in that camp :-)

too much regular maintenance required for e61.

i had evo leva mk 1 and did grease the piston a couple of times, thats it. Id also state that was because i wanted to, not because it was required. @dfk41 will advise Necessary maintenance required.

I now have Evo Mk2 and love it. no, it doesn’t necessarily make better coffee than the v1 its just so much more convenient.

@plouf if you are still considering i for one would fully recommend Evo leva mk2 with dosing system and flush lever. personally (and waiting for the attacks) I do not see the need for the safety system. my one mishap with the leva it would not have saved me and i cant imagine ever being in its design scenario situation. (i managed to brew with no coffee in the PF whilst chatting! then let go of the lever instead of lifting it all the way!!)

Grinder wise you really need to try for yourself what you like. for me that meens buying and selling as i have nowhere to try!

I currently have Mazzer philos which feels like it will last forever and is repeatable, no static.

I have niche duo which is for decaf as the grind setting is so different and i kept forgetting to adjust between shots! Another first class grinder.

I had niche zero. i prefer slightly less mouh feel. nothing at all wrong with it.

on the other hand i love the Craig Lyn hg-1 prime which is basically a niche zero with larger slower burrs and no motor!!

I had DF83v2. my only comment it - do not go there

I had T64. basicallly i did not have space for it after buying the Philos a few days later!! Excellent choice for what you describe requiring and @dfk41 has a bargain currently!!

Also Id suggest your wife will most likely like a americano espresso as opposed to the lungo. basically an espresso with hot water added. my wifes choice!! no grinder adjustment.

it can be expensive getting to the top of that hill as David says with all the side streets on the way up.

good luck with your quest.

DavecUK

Adrianmsmith i for one would fully recommend Evo leva mk2 with dosing system and flush lever. personally (and waiting for the attacks) I do not see the need for the safety system.

No attacks here…I don’t personally feel the safety system is a necessity at all, as it only saves you from certain circumstances. With care, the lever can be perfectly safe.

plouf

It’s there!

The Evo Leva Vesuvius arrived and was installed today (many many thanks, Paolo!).

And now, let the learning begin :-)

So glad we visited so many bars in Naples last autumn, so glad I discovered your rich and insightful forum, as well!

DavecUK

plouf The Evo Leva Vesuvius arrived and was installed today (many many thanks, Paolo!).

Photos, or it didn’t happen!

Adrianmsmith

plouf that looks very shiny. Needs a nice black niche to complement it ☕