Hario V60 alternative filter papers - Rombouts No.4 white filters.

LMSC

I still have some old style Hario 01 V60 in my cupboard. Darkwood sells V60 01 (Pink and Black wrapper) from Japan. Not sure, if they are the same now. Thx

MWJB

Many thanks to @LMSC for sending over a sample of Kinto 02 white filters with cotton fibre (available from Ueshima).

So far, I have made 3 brews with each paper for comparison - Hybrid techniique, Hario Switch 02, 13.8g coffee, 190g water, grind 12% at 400Kruve.

Preheat the Switch then 2 pours of 40g every 40s through the centre of the Drip Assist with the valve open.

At 1:17 close the valve then pour the remaining water via the ring of the Drip Assist at 1:20, ending at 2:00.

Draw down at 3:00.

Extraction yields between the two papers were identical on average, the Kinto papers drew down a little slower (8s avg) than the Hario medium crepe (no longer supplied). Also, the Kinto papers seem to hold back a tiny bit more water/slurry.

As far as a subjective liking score goes, I still preferred the Hario medium crepe (7.0/9.0), but the Kinto (6.3/9.0) are nowhere as bad as the current Hario green stripe (smooth inner, med crepe outer) papers. The Kinto seem a bit more prone to silt getting through, but as extractions are still good/ball-park, grinding a little coarser may rectify this without the extractions dropping detrimentally.

I may add a few more brews over the coming week. Be aware only 3 brews per condition so far, so I’m not claiming any statistical significance, but subjectively the effect on the palate seems to be a trend.

Kinto 02 vs Hario med crepe in&out

LMSC

@MWJB Interesting. Thank you for the experiment. It will be useful, if you find time, compare the usual pour regime. 2 x centre with valve closed and 3 in circles valve open.

Edit:

EY is interesting, although it’s too early to conclude. I could not pick one over the other in blind cupping and was not able to detect any slight silts using Kintos.

MWJB

LMSC I’m not expecting EY to significantly differ based on what I have seen so far. Silt wouldn’t tend show up via EY (as it’s not extraction related) unless you ground crazy fine/it was a big problem.

‘Will do’, on the ‘steep first, percolate later’ variation.

MWJB

Now completed another 6 brews, 2×40g/40s in centre with valve shut, open valve just before 1:20 then another 3 pours in the ring with the valve open. 3 brews with Kinto paper, 3 brews with the Hario medium crepe and this seems to have shifted the balance slightly in favour of the Kinto, for the 2nd round (immerse first, then percolate second).

For 6 brews per paper, the differences between the papers evened out - both averaged 6.5/9.0 (69%) in subjective liking score.

EY was 19.9% for the Kinto, 19.7% for the Hario medium crepe (0.2% isn’t in any way significant in terms of a difference).

So, if open to slightly tweaking your brew regime for hybrid Switch brews, both paper filters may be considered equivalent.

Thanks again to @LMSC for sending over the Kinto papers.

LMSC

MWJB So, if open to slightly tweaking your brew regime for hybrid Switch brews, both paper filters may be considered equivalent.

For example, 6 pulses than 5 to lengthen the brew time - 6 × 40s x 35g/40g? Thx

LMSC

Good to hear @MWJB. Thanks again for taking a lot of your time, efforts and resources to conduct the experiment. 🙏🏽

MWJB

LMSC No, more as in this case, where ‘percolate first’ vs ‘steep first’ seemed to produce different swubjective preference results based on filter paper used in the hybrid brews (grind, brewer & weights all being constant).

LMSC

MWJB No, more as in this case,

Sorry, lost you here as you had initially indicated slightly tweaking brew regime. Please explain. Thx

MWJB

LMSC Sorry, lost you here as you had initially indicated slightly tweaking brew regime. Please explain. Thx

The first 6 brews seemed to give favourable results to the Hario medium crepe paper, in these brews the first 2 pours were with the valve open (percolation), closing the valve just before the 3rd pour (all remaining water) at 1:20, then immersing from 2:00 & drawing down at 3:00.

In the 2nd 6 brews where the Kinto paper did better, the Switch valve was shut for the first 2 pours (immersion), opened just before 1:20, then the remaining water poured in 3 more pulses at 1:20, 2:00 & 2:40 (percolation).

les24preludes

I’ve been using Rombouts No. 4 in my V60 for several months, folding them with a Hario as template.

I only brew decaf. So which would be the optimum filter paper for that?

I’ve ordered a packet of T90 to try….

MWJB

les24preludes I use the same papers for decaf & non-decaf.

les24preludes

I have a bunch of different Cafec filter papers coming - more when they arrive.

I tried the Rombouts versus Hario for speed of filtering. I used 250ml water into a wetted paper and stopped the clock when the continuous stream first broke and turned into drips. Result was Hario 22s, Rombouts 30s. As I suspected, the Rombouts is slower.

MWJB

les24preludes That won’t really work, you need the ground coffee in there as the coffee bed is part of the filtration media & the particles will interact with the paper to affect brew times. Brew times are not really precise enough to tune brews anyway. Focus on the grind setting & keeping the pour speed constant.

I did find the latest smooth inner, medium crepe outer Hario paper brewed a little faster, but normalising brew time didn’t fix flavour issues.

I found I had too grind a bit coarser for Rombouts and slow the pour rate with more pulses, I suspect the Rombouts is a coarser filtration medium compared to latest Hario.

I can’t remember which Hario papers you have, there’s a few white papers out there branded as Hario.

les24preludes

I have the latest Hario green stripe - that’s the only one I’ve had so far.

Yes, with Rombouts I’m grinding coarser with more pulses. Playing around with the grind, though. It’s a better paper than the Hario, but that’s not difficult.

LMSC

@MWJB Do you know what your percentage of fines under 400 Kruve please ? Thx

MWJB

LMSC 6% under 400Kruve for manual poured brews with a gooseneck

LMSC

MWJB Where would 12% take you in terms of yield and critically taste?

MWJB

LMSC Personally, I wouldn’t go that fine with a gooseneck poured V60 and the Rombouts paper. I was at 12% with the med crepe white Hario, but was driven coarser with the paper change.

I’m in that region though with a more restricted brewer like the Bartleet (Melitta style with 3 holes), maybe you could do it with the Mugen?

LMSC

MWJB I’m happy with the Hario project Waterfall. Was just curious what difference this paper makes. 😊

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