The Petition - for another general election

Really disappointed that this post exists tbh.
Better that we just stick to coffee imho and I don’t believe it was ever about the lively nature of a petition.

JimmyP

No, your point doesn’t stand at all as I have already said.

Firstly woke obsessed leftist is not an insult or slur. It is a statement of fact. I have already said that to those on the so called progressive left, they would likely agree with that description or at least agree that it is at least partially correct even if they consider themselves not leftist as to them that will suggest they are more far left than what they themselves think they are. That today’s left is obsessed with woke politics is beyond dispute as woke ideology permeates everything from taking a knee before soccer matches due to BLM, to DEI departments in most large companies, to forcing others to use gender pronouns of one’s choice, etc etc.

I have already illustrated my point that by contrast, calling aomeone “loony left” is a pure slur. In the same way “Gammon” is a pure insult and slur but calling someone a right wing leaning is a statement of fact. An analogy of this is calling someone a communist in ideology is a statement of fact but calling someone “pink commie filth” is a slur or insult. It’s interesting that you continue to try to justify the unjustifiable nonetheless.

chlorox What does “woke” mean? Is it more than an insult? More than stuff that you don’t like? I don’t have a problem with “taking the knee” or “BLM” for instance. Both are admirable imho 🤔

Rob1

Many of today’s problems were caused by the tories but labour’s moves have already been in the wrong direction and shows they have learned nothing form.the tories’ catastrophic tenure but seem determined to top it in bringing more ruination on the country.

On calling the petition “anti democratic”, that term is one that has been weaponised in the interests of achieving the elites’ malevolent agenda more times than not. For instance the mainstream media and the democrat party called trump an existential threat to democracy despite the dems themselves proving time and again they are the real threat to democracy in practising mass population rigging by actively allowing millions of ilegal immigrants to enter to trybto turn them into democrat voting citizens later, and actively and systematically suppressing dissent, censoring and punishing those who express different viewpoints with imprisonment, fines and damages form lawsuits and despite trump’s own first 4 year term.showing no impingement by him.on the liberties of the people.

The mass media has also turned a blind eye to truly anti democratic actions while using that term to pillory those the disagree with ideologically. For instance yanukovyich the prime minister of Ukraine who was democratically elected was toppled from power by mass street demonstrations and protests and replaced by a pro Europe leaning replacement. The western media called it the revolution of dignity. You can always trust the deep state propaganda arm to spin it their way but it is clearly an anti democratic action that actually forced a democratically elected government from power. It was in fact a coup and there is even evidence that the cia and us government had a major hand in instigating the protests and using it to force him from power and replacing him with an candidate of their choice. Victoria Nuland and the then us ambassador Geoff pyatt were tape recorded having a discussion on the phone that shows this involvement and the recording is available on line and has never been disputed as to its authenticity by the Americans.

In this case u have a mere petition of people calling for a fresh election. Nothing will come out of it - you don’t have a nuland and pyatt to engineer a coup out of it. But what is useful from this Petition- and what I drew attention towards rather - is the high degree of disaffected and frustration with Labour even this early in their term. To me, it shows that not only is Labour having bad ideas in government, but many people know it fully well in the UK and are angry about it. That signals opportunity for the reform party for the next election but only if they build themselves up to be ready for it.

JimmyP

Amazing - you don’t even know what woke means as an ideology and how it was a term invented and used by those on the left themselves to refer to themselves??? If u dont even know what I was referring to, then why not take the trouble to research it and understanding it first before taking umbrage on behalf of the left and insulting me?

BrendaninBrooklyn

I never disputed that trump will have to show tangible results to be seen as a success. What I was drawing attention to was your very negative ideas of trump which were imprinted on you by the propaganda of the establishment who have slurred him in the eyes of many including yourself because they are afraid he will tear down the edifice of power they have created. That negative viewpoont is itself a active obstruction for trump to be able to deliver on his promises because it is helping the establishment mobilise opposition to him to try to achieve it. So your antipathy is not neutral but will be weaponosed by the left to try to block trump from achieving the changes even u would want to see happen.

JimmyP

On the contrary, the more people talk about the matters that really count and exercise their freedom of speech in debating the ideas of how things are and should be done to make society better, the better it is. That is the last thing the establishment and the elites in power want - rather they want us to be drugged by mindless entertainment and trivialities (like coffee) while pursuing the crumbs they set out for us while they pocket the best of eveyrthing and suppressing opposition by getting us to be repeating the pabulum they haveindoctrinated us into believing and parroting through the pervasive media they employ to control us. Meanwhile they fatten us up like cattle by feeding us rubbish that slowly poisons us and then they feed us drugs at great expense that don’t heal us but keep us alive….

BrendaninBrooklyn

Jfk tax cuts r ref to the revenue act of 1964 but the tax cuts embodied in that act were coloured by the fact that the highest marginal tax rates before that were as high as 91 per cent! So it was clear tax reform was badly needed. Hence to make a direct comparison of that with the present day, would be not apt.

On nasa, the founder and rreal father of the program was undoubtedly eisenhower who was republican who not only founded nasa but started the mercury program that was necessary as the precursor to the apollo program. As for making it bigger, rather than being visionary jfk was reacting to yuri gagaryn’s seminal orbit and so it was a mere progression from what eisenhower had begun. Had eisenhower been in power at that time, he would have likely done the same thing.

Incidentally the president who warned the world presciently of the military industrial complex and how it would be a serious threat was Dwight eisenhower. Jfk who came immediately aftrt eisenhower learned the hard way how it almost drove him into ww3 as the establishment caused the bay of pigs debacle to happen and induced the Cuban missile crisis. Jfk turned against it and he gave orders not to get into the war in Vietnam. And then jfk was assassinated merely weeks later … lyndon johnson who was his vp but who didn’t share jfk views willingly did the bidding of the war hawks and drove rhe country headlong into the Vietnam war…

My point is that the things u credit the democrat party for was either done more by republicans or was at least a bipartisan effort or was not a good thing at all. In fact to this day what is galling is that if u ask most blacks which was the party who fought against slavery during the civil war, they would say the democrat party and that the republicans were the party of the South! Thanks to mass media and hollywood perversions of the truth, they don’t even know who the real enemy is, that the party many of them vote for was the one that had enslaved their forefathers and ehicj opposed reconstruction through among othere the ku klux klan! The democrat party continues to put African Americans in shackles of the mind and putting them into a Victimised mentality to blame the White Man and systemic racism for their ills instead of empowering them by having the attitudeto take responsibility to move themselves up by their efforts.

Did u know that in the history of the us, only republican president’s havr ever been assassinated and the only democrat president who has been assassinated was jfk and that was only after he turned against the militwry industrial complex? The republic has always had the establishment working shadowily in the darkness out of sight and the democrat party has always been a tool of that establishment to a greater degree than the republicans have…..

BrendaninBrooklyn

As far as i am concerned, those of us on this thread have been having exactly that type of thoughtful conversation that you referred to as being desirable to foster.

You do not know me either and so all we know of each other is by the content and quality of what we post about these topics. So how i have evaluated your views comes entirely from your posts. I describe what I see franklyand honestly and if u disagree, that’s fine.

I have also known of trump for decades before he ran for office - I am not as young as u seem to think I am! Trump has always been an in your face new York property developer type of personality- he isn’t pure as the driven snow and has done his far share of mistakes and bad choices but if u regard him so negatively as to see him as a “Swine” today and tbink u have always seen him as such, then I suggest that there may be a fair bit of revisionism working by your subconscious to justify the views u have today of him, because in no wise was he generally regarded in such a way by the gatekeepers of public opinion in those days…

In actual fact I used to subscribe to the same neo conservative liberal ideas that the mass media propagates until I began to see the cracks in the facade and began to question the orthodoxy. I don’t subscribe to everything the conspiracy theorists suggest either but I subject everything I read to the same critical approach. The result is the views I currently subscribe to which neither inform entirely to right wing nor does it at all conform to the liberal and left viewpoints. It does have more of what the right wing subscribes to but that’s because it seems to conform more to the likelihood and probability of being correct to me. So I don’t think I am brainwashed by righr wing, chicken wing or any sort of wing for that matter. I could still be wrong, but at least I have seen the whole spectrum of views on these topics and have consciously worked through it. And that’s the best any of us can really do…

I have to point out though where it pertains to what u have said is that whatever you say u have read, it is almost impossible to avoid being influenced by what the massmedia trots out. Even the science journals thar you say is your main reading content have become infected by woke ideology - see for instance https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-hurtful-idea-of-scientific-merit-controversy-nih-energy-research-f122f74d

In fact your usage of fhe leftist invented term “far right” already indicates you have been influenced without your knowledge by the mass media. That is a loaded term the left sympathisers use to unjustifiably associate people holding pretty much common sensical ideas with neo nazi types and skin heads - especially these days when right wing conservatives are fighting for food safety and reform of big pharma influence on the fda and big agri influence on the dept of agriculture etc and fighting against going to war against foreign countries and the left are fighting for censorship, suppression of dissent and contrary views, surveillance state, war in other countries, etc!

All those i know of who claim to not read media but came to their own views have turned out to be influenced by someone or the other in the end. I find it is far safer and better to be read all the media both left and right and then evaluate what they say and do your own thinking and reading as well.

So be conscious of the pervasive power of that effect and u have already disarmed much of its power!

I am glad though that you agree with the right wing solution to illegal immigration and i do agree with your final statement that time will tell if trump means what he says. So far he has been making the right moves, so let’s see and give him a chance to do his job…

BrendaninBrooklyn

Of course we are all infected. That ship sailed long ago… That’s why we need to be inoculated with the truth!

I don’t think we r participating in nonsense. I consider this a valuable conversation and interesting interaction with you Of different viewpoints, and it has been time well spent as far as I am concerned.

Sorry wrong thread

JimmyP

LOL truly astonishing. You have been nothing but evasive throughout on this thread as well while i have been replying point by point to u and confronting everyone of your attempted points head on and refutng all of your reasoning comprehensively. And u call me evasive??? You are just like mainstream media - always accusing their targets of doing the things they are actually doing on a daily basis…

JimmyP

Instead of refuting what I say or even employing anyreal argumentation, u resort to cheap shots and insults throughout. Anyone who really wants to get to what is the true picture of things will be able to see through you pretty quickly. If u want to continue to be a pawn livingin blissful.ignorance in the system that has been created to make use of u and then to chew and spit u out at the end of it, then that is your choice. But by voting the way the establishment wants u to do and choosing to support their narrative, u are thus part of the problem.and u become part of the support for that system that is opposed to everyone else’s interests.