The forum is non commercial, but not non political in as much as there appears to be a phenomenon going on the like of which I have never seen before with the petitions system This petition https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/700143 has been running since 20 November, it already has **1,500,000 signatures in that time.** This is around 400K per day. Well nothing unusual you say…except that it's current run rate is 100K per hour! If this continues and doesn't increase it could have another 1.6 million signatures by end of play tomorrow. So regardless of your political leanings, it's very unusual, I've never seen anything like it and I intend to keep watching the link to see how high it gets. It still has 6 months to run, although I expect parliament will vote to debate it ASAP whilst numbers are low. In the time it took me to write this post 16,000 more signatures have been recieved

When I voted this morning at 10am, the count was approximately 320,000……every 10 seconds it is climbing around 250 signatures!

It seems like rather an odd petition. Politicians have not been doing what they said they would since the dawn of time. I’m not sure what it will achieve aside from making part of the population feel ‘heard’, which is as good as anything I suppose. Interested to follow along and see what happens.

Well nothing as we don't really get a say 🤣🤣🤣

Fascinating how quickly it’s rising! I’m curious as to what outcome people are hoping for though. From the narrative I saw pre-election, the left seemed very keen to just ‘get the Tories out’ without actually thinking beyond that result. Presumably those people aren’t likely to suddenly vote blue. I guess the farming community probably make up a significant number of those on the petition. I’m usually Tory but even I can appreciate that it’s likely to take Labour more than a few months to get settled in and I must admit they’ve at least made a few positive steps.

I think there are a few with voter's remorse in the USA who wouldn't mind another crack at it, too.

Get Farage in. Deputy be Katie Hopkins 😎

@"Pompeyexile"#p73280 The only ones with voters remorse are those who had the stupidity to vote Democrat! I find US politics fascinating to view from a distance. It makes our lot look like amateurs

People have short memories. Over 6 million signed the petition to revoke article 50 and remain in the EU. Over 4 million voted for a second EU referendum, so this isn't unprecedented. Starmer's government is unpopular and, as in most every election, fewer people voted for the government than didn't. That's how modern democracies work! Not liking the result of an election is a poor reason to push for another almost immediately. Given how increasingly easy it is to popularise these petitions online I wouldn't be surprised if this one gets as many votes or even passes the Brexit referenda. But I expect it will be as successful as all the others!

A few observations around this phenomenon, around 2 million elderly won't have the ability to sign it. It may also make them realise they do not have the clear mandate they thought and should respect the people they are there to serve.

The Petition - for another general election

BrendaninBrooklyn

chlorox

And you as well – watch the reality not the rhetoric and perhaps we shall amicably compare notes down the road.

chlorox

BrendaninBrooklyn

I never disputed that trump will have to show tangible results to be seen as a success. What I was drawing attention to was your very negative ideas of trump which were imprinted on you by the propaganda of the establishment who have slurred him in the eyes of many including yourself because they are afraid he will tear down the edifice of power they have created. That negative viewpoont is itself a active obstruction for trump to be able to deliver on his promises because it is helping the establishment mobilise opposition to him to try to achieve it. So your antipathy is not neutral but will be weaponosed by the left to try to block trump from achieving the changes even u would want to see happen.

Rob1

dfk41 Not everything a party does is in a manifesto. It isn’t possible to say everything they will do. The key is to not break manifesto pledges, which they haven’t. The petition and promotion of it in our media is an attack on our democracy. The idea we can force an election a few months after we’ve just had one because people don’t like facing reality is absurd. The fact it’s being promoted by mainstream media and opposing politicians is a sign of the idiocracy we live in. All of the existing problems this country currently faces are entirely the result of the previous government burying problems in the sand and pushing them further downstream. Now people need to face the reality of what this country is and the position it’s in, and they don’t like it.

DavecUK

Rob1 The petition and promotion of it in our media is an attack on our democracy.

I don’t disagree with what you say except for this. I don’t believe we have proper democracy in this country. This starts with the basic electoral system, which allows the few who get votes to have sway over the many. All due to our particular electoral system.

Democracy is a form of government where the people hold the power and have a say in how the country is run. The word democracy comes from the Greek words demos, meaning people, and kratos, meaning power.

Here are some characteristics of democracy:

Free elections: People elect their government through competitive elections.
Civil liberties: Democracies protect civil liberties and human rights.
Equality: Democracies promote equality of rights for all people, including women.
Accountability: People can hold decision-makers accountable.

Democracy is not the same as autocracy, dictatorship, or oligarchy, where one person or a small group of people rule.

dfk41

Rob1 Hiya, I did not really believe in the points that you made Rob. Labour did not really win the election in the truest sense of the word. They lost by the smallest amount! Of course there is no mechanism to remove them. I took the point of the petition, to allow people to register their discontent rather than anything else. I am not trying to make any political pointers s, but I am fairly confident in saying that Labour are barely covering themselves in glory. Still, we have them for the best part of 5 years so have to accept that. Labour might have an enormous majority, but that is more to do with few people bothering to vote and there being no viable alternate at July 2024.

Politics around the world is really rotten!

chlorox

Rob1

Many of today’s problems were caused by the tories but labour’s moves have already been in the wrong direction and shows they have learned nothing form.the tories’ catastrophic tenure but seem determined to top it in bringing more ruination on the country.

On calling the petition “anti democratic”, that term is one that has been weaponised in the interests of achieving the elites’ malevolent agenda more times than not. For instance the mainstream media and the democrat party called trump an existential threat to democracy despite the dems themselves proving time and again they are the real threat to democracy in practising mass population rigging by actively allowing millions of ilegal immigrants to enter to trybto turn them into democrat voting citizens later, and actively and systematically suppressing dissent, censoring and punishing those who express different viewpoints with imprisonment, fines and damages form lawsuits and despite trump’s own first 4 year term.showing no impingement by him.on the liberties of the people.

The mass media has also turned a blind eye to truly anti democratic actions while using that term to pillory those the disagree with ideologically. For instance yanukovyich the prime minister of Ukraine who was democratically elected was toppled from power by mass street demonstrations and protests and replaced by a pro Europe leaning replacement. The western media called it the revolution of dignity. You can always trust the deep state propaganda arm to spin it their way but it is clearly an anti democratic action that actually forced a democratically elected government from power. It was in fact a coup and there is even evidence that the cia and us government had a major hand in instigating the protests and using it to force him from power and replacing him with an candidate of their choice. Victoria Nuland and the then us ambassador Geoff pyatt were tape recorded having a discussion on the phone that shows this involvement and the recording is available on line and has never been disputed as to its authenticity by the Americans.

In this case u have a mere petition of people calling for a fresh election. Nothing will come out of it - you don’t have a nuland and pyatt to engineer a coup out of it. But what is useful from this Petition- and what I drew attention towards rather - is the high degree of disaffected and frustration with Labour even this early in their term. To me, it shows that not only is Labour having bad ideas in government, but many people know it fully well in the UK and are angry about it. That signals opportunity for the reform party for the next election but only if they build themselves up to be ready for it.

JimmyP

chlorox “Woke obsessed leftists”. Your words buddy 🤔
You can try those mental gymnastics but I think my point stands 🙂👍

chlorox

JimmyP

No, your point doesn’t stand at all as I have already said.

Firstly woke obsessed leftist is not an insult or slur. It is a statement of fact. I have already said that to those on the so called progressive left, they would likely agree with that description or at least agree that it is at least partially correct even if they consider themselves not leftist as to them that will suggest they are more far left than what they themselves think they are. That today’s left is obsessed with woke politics is beyond dispute as woke ideology permeates everything from taking a knee before soccer matches due to BLM, to DEI departments in most large companies, to forcing others to use gender pronouns of one’s choice, etc etc.

I have already illustrated my point that by contrast, calling aomeone “loony left” is a pure slur. In the same way “Gammon” is a pure insult and slur but calling someone a right wing leaning is a statement of fact. An analogy of this is calling someone a communist in ideology is a statement of fact but calling someone “pink commie filth” is a slur or insult. It’s interesting that you continue to try to justify the unjustifiable nonetheless.

JimmyP

Really disappointed that this post exists tbh.
Better that we just stick to coffee imho and I don’t believe it was ever about the lively nature of a petition.

chlorox

JimmyP

On the contrary, the more people talk about the matters that really count and exercise their freedom of speech in debating the ideas of how things are and should be done to make society better, the better it is. That is the last thing the establishment and the elites in power want - rather they want us to be drugged by mindless entertainment and trivialities (like coffee) while pursuing the crumbs they set out for us while they pocket the best of eveyrthing and suppressing opposition by getting us to be repeating the pabulum they haveindoctrinated us into believing and parroting through the pervasive media they employ to control us. Meanwhile they fatten us up like cattle by feeding us rubbish that slowly poisons us and then they feed us drugs at great expense that don’t heal us but keep us alive….

JimmyP

chlorox What does “woke” mean? Is it more than an insult? More than stuff that you don’t like? I don’t have a problem with “taking the knee” or “BLM” for instance. Both are admirable imho 🤔

chlorox

JimmyP

Amazing - you don’t even know what woke means as an ideology and how it was a term invented and used by those on the left themselves to refer to themselves??? If u dont even know what I was referring to, then why not take the trouble to research it and understanding it first before taking umbrage on behalf of the left and insulting me?

JimmyP

chlorox Evasive. Interesting 🤔

BrendaninBrooklyn

chlorox

You don’t know me; we’ve never met, spoken, corresponded. Your statements about my beliefs are presumptuous at best. I live here when not in the EU; you do not. I’ve seen and known about him for decades before you ever heard his name.

I could just reverse your statements about me into saying you’ve been brain-washed by the right-wing however, shall we be gentlemanly and refrain from any such further idiocy?

I firmly believe that a healthy society has meaningful conversations between right and left, old and young; that consensus not debate is the goal; that the good of the community not of one side is primary, and that pragmatic solutions derive from the combined experience, knowledge, wisdom gained by listening well to each other.

I have no party affiliations; I have minimal media contact. My “news” comes mainly from science journals, and a close reading of history, particularly economic. Actual data is more interesting to me than opinions.

The Post Modern extreme far right and the Post Modernist Neo-Marxist revisionists (woke for short) are both the enemies of Western civilization and all that it implies. They only differ in whom they hate and fear. Otherwise they are interchangeable.

There are many pressing problems globally. Immigration is one, and is the one where I believe a radical pragmatic right-wing solution must occur ASAP.

You believe Trump to be a good leader; I believe he is a swine. You believe he will solve this and other problems. I do not.

History will tell.

JimmyP

chlorox Lol. Tinfoil hat fitting nicely eh bro? 😂

chlorox

BrendaninBrooklyn

Jfk tax cuts r ref to the revenue act of 1964 but the tax cuts embodied in that act were coloured by the fact that the highest marginal tax rates before that were as high as 91 per cent! So it was clear tax reform was badly needed. Hence to make a direct comparison of that with the present day, would be not apt.

On nasa, the founder and rreal father of the program was undoubtedly eisenhower who was republican who not only founded nasa but started the mercury program that was necessary as the precursor to the apollo program. As for making it bigger, rather than being visionary jfk was reacting to yuri gagaryn’s seminal orbit and so it was a mere progression from what eisenhower had begun. Had eisenhower been in power at that time, he would have likely done the same thing.

Incidentally the president who warned the world presciently of the military industrial complex and how it would be a serious threat was Dwight eisenhower. Jfk who came immediately aftrt eisenhower learned the hard way how it almost drove him into ww3 as the establishment caused the bay of pigs debacle to happen and induced the Cuban missile crisis. Jfk turned against it and he gave orders not to get into the war in Vietnam. And then jfk was assassinated merely weeks later … lyndon johnson who was his vp but who didn’t share jfk views willingly did the bidding of the war hawks and drove rhe country headlong into the Vietnam war…

My point is that the things u credit the democrat party for was either done more by republicans or was at least a bipartisan effort or was not a good thing at all. In fact to this day what is galling is that if u ask most blacks which was the party who fought against slavery during the civil war, they would say the democrat party and that the republicans were the party of the South! Thanks to mass media and hollywood perversions of the truth, they don’t even know who the real enemy is, that the party many of them vote for was the one that had enslaved their forefathers and ehicj opposed reconstruction through among othere the ku klux klan! The democrat party continues to put African Americans in shackles of the mind and putting them into a Victimised mentality to blame the White Man and systemic racism for their ills instead of empowering them by having the attitudeto take responsibility to move themselves up by their efforts.

Did u know that in the history of the us, only republican president’s havr ever been assassinated and the only democrat president who has been assassinated was jfk and that was only after he turned against the militwry industrial complex? The republic has always had the establishment working shadowily in the darkness out of sight and the democrat party has always been a tool of that establishment to a greater degree than the republicans have…..

Cuprajake

Gotta love politics,

Does it’s job, makes everyone biker so they can get on swindling us

We need to unite and stand up as one people

As bubba sparxx once said fcuk the law they can’t arrest us all!

Platypus

Cuprajake fcuk the law they can’t arrest us all!

Starmer had a damn good try!! 🙄

chlorox

BrendaninBrooklyn

As far as i am concerned, those of us on this thread have been having exactly that type of thoughtful conversation that you referred to as being desirable to foster.

You do not know me either and so all we know of each other is by the content and quality of what we post about these topics. So how i have evaluated your views comes entirely from your posts. I describe what I see franklyand honestly and if u disagree, that’s fine.

I have also known of trump for decades before he ran for office - I am not as young as u seem to think I am! Trump has always been an in your face new York property developer type of personality- he isn’t pure as the driven snow and has done his far share of mistakes and bad choices but if u regard him so negatively as to see him as a “Swine” today and tbink u have always seen him as such, then I suggest that there may be a fair bit of revisionism working by your subconscious to justify the views u have today of him, because in no wise was he generally regarded in such a way by the gatekeepers of public opinion in those days…

In actual fact I used to subscribe to the same neo conservative liberal ideas that the mass media propagates until I began to see the cracks in the facade and began to question the orthodoxy. I don’t subscribe to everything the conspiracy theorists suggest either but I subject everything I read to the same critical approach. The result is the views I currently subscribe to which neither inform entirely to right wing nor does it at all conform to the liberal and left viewpoints. It does have more of what the right wing subscribes to but that’s because it seems to conform more to the likelihood and probability of being correct to me. So I don’t think I am brainwashed by righr wing, chicken wing or any sort of wing for that matter. I could still be wrong, but at least I have seen the whole spectrum of views on these topics and have consciously worked through it. And that’s the best any of us can really do…

I have to point out though where it pertains to what u have said is that whatever you say u have read, it is almost impossible to avoid being influenced by what the massmedia trots out. Even the science journals thar you say is your main reading content have become infected by woke ideology - see for instance https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-hurtful-idea-of-scientific-merit-controversy-nih-energy-research-f122f74d

In fact your usage of fhe leftist invented term “far right” already indicates you have been influenced without your knowledge by the mass media. That is a loaded term the left sympathisers use to unjustifiably associate people holding pretty much common sensical ideas with neo nazi types and skin heads - especially these days when right wing conservatives are fighting for food safety and reform of big pharma influence on the fda and big agri influence on the dept of agriculture etc and fighting against going to war against foreign countries and the left are fighting for censorship, suppression of dissent and contrary views, surveillance state, war in other countries, etc!

All those i know of who claim to not read media but came to their own views have turned out to be influenced by someone or the other in the end. I find it is far safer and better to be read all the media both left and right and then evaluate what they say and do your own thinking and reading as well.

So be conscious of the pervasive power of that effect and u have already disarmed much of its power!

I am glad though that you agree with the right wing solution to illegal immigration and i do agree with your final statement that time will tell if trump means what he says. So far he has been making the right moves, so let’s see and give him a chance to do his job…

BrendaninBrooklyn

chlorox

My dear fellow; if it is impossible to avoid media contact, then you are already infected. Shall we stop this nonsense and allow that each of us may be widely read and thoughtful?

chlorox

BrendaninBrooklyn

Of course we are all infected. That ship sailed long ago… That’s why we need to be inoculated with the truth!

I don’t think we r participating in nonsense. I consider this a valuable conversation and interesting interaction with you Of different viewpoints, and it has been time well spent as far as I am concerned.

chlorox

Sorry wrong thread

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