Lelit Elizabeth

dfk41

LMSC I have to confess, I have not used the Zero since I commissioned the Mythos. I have just bought a couple of screwdrivers and the offset 17mm and 20mm spanners that need to remove the auger allowing you to take out the bottom burr set. Then I will be happy that any debris inside is my debris and not someone elses!

Elcarajillo

Are you getting adventurous with the tools ??, has that new knee reinvigorated you ?

axpetts

Lance Hedrick has just released a pretty good video on this

@DavecUK gets a shout out too for his recommended settings

dfk41

axpetts Mine for some reason, has decided to alter the parameters on button one. It was set for the standard of a 3 second fill, 6 seconds preinfusion then the shot. It is now doing a 6 second fill, 3 further seconds of preinfusion then the shot. It is easily fixed but odd that it should happen

DavecUK

axpetts I watched the video and it was pretty good coverage, he missed a few things as far as an overview goes.

The Pumps not an Ulka it’s an Olab Lelit Silent pump, which is very quiet in comparison to a standard Ulka or the Olab Silent Green. The Lelit version is only made for/sold to Lelit and makes it quieter than the MaraX it was designed for. I specifically asked for the Ulka pump originally used in the Elizabeth to be replaced by the Lelit Silent version. It’s an easy mistake to make when doing a video though.
A small thing…the steam preinfusion is limited I think to a max of 5s, I can’t remember now…but it’s limited to whatever I advised, this prevents overheating the brew boiler
He didn’t cover the sheer cleverness of hot water production and the fact you could get a lot more out than the size of boilers would lead you to believe and that’s also good for descaling…it’s in one of my sway documents.
The brew boiler isn’t insulated, because although it’s easy to gain heat, insulating it would have made it harder to loose heat and slowed it’s overall response….was I wrong, possibly, possibly not?

My whole video series on the Elizabeth is here

I also downloaded the 3 key sway documents into .PDF files, they have less interactive features than the sways, but are faster to access and give security in case Microsoft ever stop running MS Sway. You can find them here.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1LOeRBSLCQ2BoYYlMdfVA3O5iZGAB87MP?usp=sharing

If you are interested in a much deeper dive into the Elizabeth, then these are highly recommended, I spent a LOT of time on this little machine.

dfk41

I made my morning cuppa and lo and behold, it behaved correctly and ran 3 seconds of water onto the puck followed by 6 seconds infusion……strange!

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK - Having watched Lance’s review, and owned the Elizabeth for almost 5 years, I don’t think he did a great job at all. He should have paid more attention to the work you did, and documented. It’s almost as if he didn’t bother reading what you wrote or watching what you videoed. I found his explanation with regards to steam pre-infusion very poor, and somewhat, misleading. Check around the 5 minute mark: He keeps saying that in the advanced menu, you set how long you want the steam pressure valve (the electrovalve) to be open. I don’t believe that’s true: In advance settings, you set the pump run time. Also, to turn off steam pre-infusion, all one needs to do is to turn the steam boiler off. That wasn’t covered clearly in the video. But it’s covered very clearly in Dave’s documentation.

Steam pre infusion and “Pump pre-infusion”. I personally think Steam Pre-Infusion and Boom Pre-infusion is more logical and make more sense, as per what you wrote in your review.

dfk41

MediumRoastSteam I thought his review as like most of his reviews was total bollox but I thought it polite to let someone else say that first. I rarely watch anything he produces because the factual content is poor and if I wanted to watch a comedy I would choose The Young Ones

MediumRoastSteam

dfk41 - I don’t follow Lance or watch his machines overviews/reviews (Although I have to say his Latte Art videos are excellent and has thought me a lot - but I still suck at it!). I had to comment since I had the Elizabeth for so so long. His review is very shallow compared to Dave’s. I mean, I would not have bought the Elizabeth without never having heard of such a machine before if it wasn’t for Dave’s review. Lance’s review 5 years later video adds no value what so ever to the material Dave has produced, for me at least.

But most people want to see a high quality well produced video with someone drinking coffee with a colourful spoon and making funny faces rather than reading serious and factual documentation and in-depth technical “boring” videos.

Anyways… Moving on…

dfk41

MediumRoastSteam I hate banging on about things continuously as it is boring. The reason I settled on the Elizabeth was your own enthusiasm! I dug a bit and it appeared to be a solid reliable machine. Bearing in mind I have had an awful lot of machines and grinders, to say that I am not impressed with a badge is an understatement. I had a La Marzocco GS3 Auto. I kept it 4 weeks. I learnt a long time ago, that 90% of the input into making a coffee comes from the individual and the remaining 10% can be attributed to the machine. All the little things some machines do certainly can add to the overall experience but not really enough to change the outcome. If you have a saturated group head and make 3 drinks a day as in not one after the other, so what?

The Elizabeth is a very clever advanced little machine. I really like the fact that it has a 300ml brew boiler and 600ml steam boiler. When you turn on, it heats the brew boiler up to about 116 before letting it drop down to your desired temperature. This means after 15 to 20 minutes it really is warmed through and ready to go. The small steam boiler means you can turn it on ust a few minutes before you need it. With the steam boiler switched off (and I mean is cold) you can draw water through the water tap from the brew boiler to make that Americano. The 2 brew buttons are programmable giving you flexibility in case you want to tinker.

The build quality is very good. She has a small footprint. The only criticism I would level is she has a horrible plastic steam knob that requires several turns to open it……can anyone think of a machine that has all these features and costs sub £1200

axpetts

I don’t understand why Lance gets so much stick on here. His videos are pretty decent in my view. For the most part the info seems reasonably accurate, and surely some small technical errors can be forgiven. There’s no denying the production quality is very good and he is a cut above a lot of YouTubers who are basically giving a talking advert with seemingly no knowledge.

Thought it worth highlighting for the fact that it mentioned the in-depth work of @DavecUK. It was nice to see Dave’s work being mentioned to a much wider audience and it will be really useful for those wanting to deep dive.

dfk41

axpetts I don’t understand why Lance gets so much stick on here.

He appeared on here a couple of years ago. Someone asked him about a video he did pushing a grinder. He did not mention the power brick that was external and the size of a briefcase. He was asked why he did not think to mention this in the review and he came up with a flippant excuse blaming his video editor. Next thing, he attacks said person on his own website accusing them of everything under the sun in an attempt to bring both him and the forum down…..he failed miserably!

DavecUK

axpetts I don’t understand why Lance gets so much stick on here. His videos are pretty decent in my view. For the most part the info seems reasonably accurate, and surely some small technical errors can be forgiven.

I think the video on the Elizabeth is fine for an overview and it’s good that he is bringing it back to the publics attention, it’s a good little machine and deserves to get a bit of publicity. The more people that buy it makes the considerable time I put into making it “right” well worth it.

So yes, people need to cut Lance a bit of slack on this one as it is quite a complex machine in programming terms.

Cuprajake

axpetts

Most vids ive seen there have been things wrong, but unless you know the machine being discussed then you would never know, and it is taken as fact thats all, so information thats been published has to be accurate or made sure its opinion

Its not just him though, james hoffman did a massive number on the niche duo presenting information how it was identical to the zero, which is bs

Credit to lance he stood up to james on this point and it got that heated in the comments he had to close the thread

The problem with all the online influencers who have a bit of weight behind them is the trail of destruction they can cause a business.

The number of people who wont now buy a duo and repeat what Hoffman’s said that they taste identical is untrue, if i remember correctly he also destroyed a womans coffee business

Giphy - Spider Man Great Responsibility GIF

dndrich

I thought the video was sort of cute, and he really does like the machine. He gives Dave credit too, which was classy. Sure, he missed a few things for those of us that know the machine well, but overall gets the gist of what the machine is about. I too bought the machine in part based on Dave’s excellent in-depth coverage, and I have been totally delighted with it. I am not a hobbyist like some on this board. I want to have a consistent pull and good milk texture for our daily lattes, with a machine that is easy to care for. Elizabeth is all that and more. I have owned the machine for 3 ½ years now, and despite leaving the machine on most of the day every day, I have had minimal issues. Let’s face it, hot water under pressure day in and day out is a recipe for trouble. But the build and ability for the home user to service the machine is terrific. I have had to fix a few leaks, and modify the steam valve a bit, but all was easily done. The availability of parts if needed means that I should be able to keep this machine for years to come. There are a few similar machines now such as the Rancilio Silva pro x, and the Profitec Move among others, but despite the age of the design Elizabeth is a strong contender. For some reason they are 20% off now, which brings the price hundreds of dollars lower than competitors. If the machine holds up as well as I think it will, I am set for years to come with no need for any “upgrade”. Elizabeth is superb.

Adrianmsmith

dndrich Sure, he missed a few things for those of us that know the machine well, but overall gets the gist of what the machine is about.

That’s about it not always that he is wrong, just not complete.

Its annoying as well how many of his followers are more interesting in his “great guns, man” than the actual content .

Many styles of video on YouTube and the main issue is people looking for info will believe and re quote everything they say even the wrong stuff . L said so it is gospel. As @Cuprajake said above thus can be very damaging. I guess that doesnt matter until its damaging to “you”. But it does, always, to someone

I dont always like Hoons style but this was a good light hearted watch. Not so meticulous in its presentation but a total lack of ego (and editing 😎).

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK So yes, people need to cut Lance a bit of slack on this one as it is quite a complex machine in programming terms.

I disagree. It was all there for him. Book, Chapter and verse. You wrote it all Dave! Yet… he managed to overlook most of it and come up with his own version, which is not accurate.

One thing is to have the machine and nothing to go on by. You then have to investigate and draw your own conclusions. I get that. But this is a 5 year old machine, plenty of write ups about it… the fact that he didn’t want to, or didn’t choose to, research upfront is, in my opinion, not the best.

DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam … the fact that he didn’t want to, or didn’t choose to, research upfront is, in my opinion, not the best.

I think comparing what Lance does to what I do is a little unfair in terms of depth. I designed a lot of the new way it was going to work with Mauro, so know it intimately. Secondly I do it as a hobby not for the money and as we all know, people put an insane amount of time into their hobbies for no financial return..because they are well….hobbies. The guy who builds a loft extension to house his train set, the years of time he spends on it and the money as well..

I have been fortunate in that the amount of money I have spent on my hobby is limited although I do spend money and I do pay for my trips to ACS…not for flights to other companies. I do buy actual coffee accessories…mostly I have indulged my hobby on the cheap.

Coffee is for Lance and the other coffee YT people partly or wholly their job. It creates a brand (and value), advertises them and delivers income. James Hoffman is producing regular videos, I haven’t watched any for some time now perhaps a year or more, but most of them were just logs on the fire. This whole YT and social media phenomenon is marketing and electronic billboards. It’s all a huge advert, and when did you last expect, or need adverts to be a deep super accurate dive into a product…that’s for after the adverts.
Note: there are some sites e.g. Gamers Nexus, where what they do is a deep dive with super accurate detail!

So back to Lances video. It covered the key points of the product in a way where someone will say “hey that looks an interesting machine, I had not considered it…I’d better find out more about it”. That’s the point at which I would hope they might visit my YT channel and then follow the breadcrumbs to reviews and sway documents. So Lance has done a valuable job using “reach” to create more interest.

If there was one criticism I would make was Lance should have put a link to my YT Lelit videos in video (point and visit here), plus a link in the description. I don’t know why he didn’t, as I’m not the competition?

P.S People keep bringing up what lance did or said in past reviews, this is pointless, we all learn, we all grow, we all get better.

dfk41

I wonder if there is an ulterior motive? What is the chance of bumping into him at Host?

dfk41

I absolutely detest all ‘influencers’ no matter what they are pushing. Yet people put them up on a pedestal thinking the sun does shine out of their silver plated ring piece. They exist for one reason and one reason only……to make money. They do this by increasing their following to get more views. In turn, this needs a click bait headline or something in the video that no one else has yet noticed.

When Sprotard or whatever his name is, reviewed the Duo, he informed people that in order to swop between burrs you HAD to realign them every single time. I queried this on the video saying that in the 12 months plus I had tested it for before launch I had never had to do this and he replied along the lines of do not question my judgement. The result is the folks that watch his channel all quote the Messiah, wrongly.

What was the truth? I suspect that he was pissed off when Niche would not give him a free Duo to review and keep, therefore the hatchet came out. If you produce content, then you are 100% responsible for everything in that video. DO mistakes happen? No…..if there is negativity you can bet your bottom $ it is meant, which is exactly why I did not accept Hedrick’s assertion that he had included the power brick issue but his video editor had cut it out. If indeed he does not qc his content before launch then that is plain stupid.

Adrianmsmith

dfk41 If you produce content, then you are 100% responsible for everything in that video

But unfortunately they are not held accountable for the devastation they can cause to small companies

dfk41

Adrianmsmith Unfortunately, the phone loving, social media users of today are not taught to think but to accept…..god help us if there is a third World War!

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