ACS Falcon I

DavecUK

dany I think there is some room for improvement. I would like to know if you have performed some scace test in the meantime. Did you find that the temperature of the gruppo is the actual brewing temperature? and what did you try so far regarding the bloom and preinfusion settings? Thank you!

There definitely is room for improvement in those settings and yes I have done some initial Scace II work. The temperature of the group is not the actual brewing temperature. I have detailed quite a few software tweaks I want on the Falcon (which of course will be downloadable onto existing machines. e.g.

For temperature management, I wish there to be an offset parameter (user changeable) on each PID setting. I want to find the best average offset across a range of temperatures, this can then be entered as a factory default. Essentially allowing you to set the boiler and group to the brew temperature you want. Of course the actual real temps will be different.

This would also allow the boiler to be set on the fly to be hotter or cooler and vice versa, to allow for different temperature profiles during the shot.

Adrianmsmith

DavecUK

Is there any update on the new ACS lever machine.

DavecUK

Adrianmsmith Is there any update on the new ACS lever machine.

It will be a while coming as it needs testing and tweaking, but I can tell you more when I am out there next month.

drdre89

DavecUK what is this new upcoming ACS lever machine you speak of… Similar to the Evo Leva 2?

DavecUK

drdre89 what is this new upcoming ACS lever machine you speak of… Similar to the Evo Leva 2?

It’s going to use a heavily modified LSM style lever group, with some of the parts standard and other parts new. So it will have some interesting features. I’m spitballing a bit here but:

Lever Assist (similar idea to servo brakes/power steering on cars)
Much shorter lever
Ability to make a shot using a press of a button, if the lever isn’t required to be used
Obviously the same basic feature set of an Evo2/Vostok
Using the ACS SoC motherboard
new displays
I presume the high speed SSRs to allow power management as in Falcon I
Some other features of Falcon I (obviously as it will share the motherboard.

Ultimately features no other lever machine on the planet has currently.

Adrianmsmith

DavecUK

Can i request the option of ordering one of 2 versions

Model P: pump version - standard

Model M: mains plumbed with no tank and a solenoid not a pump. Requiring a regulated filtered sipply

🤔

HarveyMushman

DavecUK Lever Assist (similar idea to servo brakes/power steering on cars)
Much shorter lever

This is interesting. One thing that’s always put me off levers is that they tend to be absolutely massive and those that aren’t (Olympia) have quirks as a result.

However I’m sure I’ve seen levers in Italian cafes, usually older style ones where the levers appear to be much shorter and neater but I’ve never quite worked out if that’s just an illusion with them being in a big cafe.

giampiero

DavecUK Lever Assist (similar idea to servo brakes/power steering on cars)

I like the idea, not sure if would be economically feasible, but i hope yes.

dfk41

Adrianmsmith I cannot see the advantage to a home owner (and yes I did have a plumbed in Londinium once) of plumbing in…….if by chance you have a water problem and you open the tap to see brown gunge coming out then your machine is going to need a total strip down. In a commercial environment, that is a chance you have to take. With the ability on the Evo 2 to set pre-infusion then line pressure becomes irrelevant

Adrianmsmith

dfk41

I must be unique. Id buy it. 🤓

I also must have been lucky these past 60 years or so to have not seen this brown water inside the house from a tap….. have seen lots of brown water otherwise🤪

I’m enjoying exactly that atm and i believe whilst not everyone is doing it, I’m not unique.

It saves having to clean out the tank occasionally so the water doesn’t get gunky. The machine is much more stable from a pre infusion control point of view.

Obviously we don’t all want the same things but i would imagine it would sell enough to be worth offering the option.

DavecUK

HarveyMushman However I’m sure I’ve seen levers in Italian cafes, usually older style ones where the levers appear to be much shorter and neater but I’ve never quite worked out if that’s just an illusion with them being in a big cafe.

Illusion, LSM levers are all pretty much the same length.

Cuprajake

May i ask why they are looking to make another lever?

DavecUK

Cuprajake May i ask why they are looking to make another lever?

Because the things they want to do are not possible with the Standard LSM lever, it requires a modified design.

dfk41

DavecUK @Cuprajake Shame you have barred yourself from ever considering one, eh Jake

LMSC

DavecUK Photos please! 😊

Cuprajake

dfk41 i wouldn’t consider one now pal

Its a shame but till they sort the qc side of things out, to many having problems

Its nice they want to try new things, but id focus on getting what they are currently making right, before jumping to the next project

I know we only have a small smalle group of issues but theres still quite a few machines that have had issues and all within a yr of manufacture.

Plus i feel for those who have just dropped multiple £1000 of pounds/dollars then a new model comes out within a yr.

Need to nail the basics first imo

The beauty of that group is the group itself, it really doesn’t need all the bells and whistles.

A dumb mk2 with the revised chassis would of been perfect, id of used the 24v rotary from the same manufacturer as the gear pump as its silent, and smaller. (Forgot the name)

dfk41

Cuprajake I appreciate your point of view, but it is just that. The Evo 1 was revolutionary when it came out, but so was the Londinium L1……I agree that it is the LM group that is special but does that mean that you cannot tweak it or improve upon it? I think with an increasing reliance on electronics in equipment unless you get it right then there maybe issues…….but……the Falcon I was first shown at Host 2 years ago and has been developed and tested ever since so your analogy regarding people who buy a Mark 1 is a little wide (I am not saying others have not done this, like Kaffatek). The Evo was 2 ½ years from launch before changes happened.

So, if I were in the market would I buy a Falcon I……cannot see a reason not to. I also admire the way that ACS are trying to use exactly the same parts across the range.This in itself will help cut down unreliability. You mentioned QC specifically. I have to admit have not kept fully up to speed with this topic but are the documented issues you have seen QC or other matters?

HarveyMushman

I’m reluctant to get too involved but speaking generally, a prototype or test model isn’t really the same as a scaled production version.

In the manufacturer of anything, getting a prototype up and working is arguably the ‘easy’ part. Making many units to a good standard and retaining quality as you scale is very difficult.

And to Jake’s point, even more difficult when you spread the above across many variants. It happens in all industries, not just coffee equipment.

I don’t think there’s necessarily anything wrong with the sacrifice of refinement for extra features, or indeed the inverse where features are compromised for better build quality, but you need to make sure the customer is entirely aware of what they’re buying and where those compromises are made.

Cuprajake

ok, dont really want to get too much into it as it just comes across as bitter and slanging

my evo leaked from the steam arm joint, as did lmsc, yours developed a fault and you sold it cheap, there was another with issuse,

my mk2 broke within an hour of it being turned on, there are 4 others on here with issues, one scots guy had an issue and had to send it back so thats 6 machines i can think of right off the bat,

yes i know all machines have faults, im not die hard any brand but i will say if i see something not right, i wont cover it up. as these machines are £1000’s and i feel some what guilty in singing the praises and people asking me and buying off recommendation only to have issues in the first yr of ownership.

this is all evo related btw. - just the mention of another lever release thats all.

dfk41

Cuprajake I am not defending ACS! My own machine was one of the first 10 released and had 3 fails, but all were non ACS manufactured components that had nothing to do with QC. The first fail was after 9 months and was one of the valves on the top of the boiler. The second was a valve on the bottom of thee boiler (I think) and the third was the Gicar supplied screen. All parts have been used in ACS and other machines across the world, many many times. I sold my Evo for £600 as it had a known problem and the Gicar supplied parts were known to be 200 Euros plus dispersements and then fitting.

Your ball joint problem, shared with @LMSC was a good example of QC not being conducted to a good standard. Question, do you think ACS have done anything to improve their QC or do they continue to ship out poor quality products?

I do not think anyone is covering up Jake. I am glad that you have found a machine that satisfies your coffee needs. I do question 2 things though. Even Carlsberg caveat their well know slogan with ‘probably’ and secondly, I do have concerns with the way they value for export purposes their machines at £500 to avoid VAT then invite the customers to either avoid VAT on the software and volunteer the info themselves…..still, you only get away with it for as long as you do I suppose.

Adrianmsmith

dfk41 they value for export purposes their machines at £500

So, you are saying its worth more than that 🤔🤓😭😭 software is extremely expensive to write, develope and test you know 😵‍💫

Cuprajake

Im hoping off this thread now as its going in circles

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