Profitec Move Help

marksp21

Hi,

My new Profitec Move arrived this week, replacing my 20 year old Rancilio Silvia (still going strong!).

This new machine is driving me nuts.

I drink one cappuccino per day. The first couple of days were about fine tuning the grind to get the machine to run up to 8 or 9 bar with an extraction time of 20-25 secs.

The problem I immediately discovered using the bottomless portafilter basket was that as the machine approached 8bar, water spurted from around the portafilter and fine jets from the basket base. Tried everything to resolve it including increasing the grind size again (stepless) but of course the pressure dropped below 8bar and extraction time fell well below 20secs. As soon as I change the grind and the pressure approaches 8bar, I get water leaking.

Contacted the supplier who sent a replacement (silicone) group head gasket which I fitted today. Same problem.

I’ve tried swapping out the filter basket for my own trusty VST and it makes little or no difference. When I use the blanking plate, no leaks. !?

I’m truly stumped and very, very disappointed and p*****d off tbh. I want this machine out of my house.

Here’s a video of an extraction

Can anyone tell me what is wrong with this machine.

DavecUK

marksp21 No because I can’t view the video, upload it to YouTube as unlisted and then past the link here.

marksp21

DavecUK thanks

DavecUK

marksp21 The problem is one or all of:

old coffee
incorrectly stored coffee
cheap or faulty grinder
poor basket preparation
incorrect tamping
insufficient coffee in basket (you give no details of dose or basket size)
use of a bad single basket in terms of shape, depth and amount of coffee it can hold

If the portafilter is leaking portafilter basket, I am unclear if that is a basket that was supplied with the machine, or one you purchased. My assumption is there water leaking around the basket seal area…is this correct?

Cuprajake

What does the flow look like from the shower screen?

What does rhe shower screen look like

Have you tried grinding finer? Do you have a spouted pf?

Cuprajake

It does look more like a basket prep issue at this point

marksp21

Cuprajake Thanks. I’ve pushed a new post on this thread which pulls together a single responses to everyone’s comments and questions

marksp21

Cuprajake

Thanks everyone for your time.

I’m posting a single response which pulls together questions frome everyone.

I’ve been making espresso for 20years on a Rancilio Silvia so have some experience, though I’m not claiming expertise. Having said that, I’m happy to accept issues here could relate to my preparation simply on the basis that I am not precious and am looking for a solution. I don’t want to rule out a machine issue nor do I want to rule out human error, so would like to continue to explore all possibilities.

1. Gasket: I’ve replaced the Profitec rubber gasket with a silicone gasket courtesy of machine supplier which hasn’t changed the outcome. Empirically, this new gasket makes it easier to tighten the portafilter so I’m happier with the ‘feel’.

2. Gasket integrity: No leaking whatsoever when I use a blind basket, so I’m assuming the gasket seal is good.

3. Portafilter: Is OEM, came with the Profitec

4. Basket: Tried both the 21g supplied with the Profitec and my own VST 18g.

5. Grinder: Ceado E5P

6. Shower Screen: Here’s what water delivery looks like at the shower screen What we can’t see is what that delivery looks like at 9 bar.

8. Grind: I’ve tried grinding finer and that makes the problem significantly worse

9. Dose: 20/21g

10. Puck prep: I’m very careful with puck prep though that’s not to say that, after all this time, I’m not doing something wrong? I’ve been using a WDT for some years now. I aim for a level bed. Tamper is spring loaded to help me get reasonably consistent tamp pressure. My understanding is that consistency is more important than the actual pressure applied so spring tension isn’t as important.

11. Beans: I’ve been using https://www.beanberrycoffee.com/products/javascript . I buy a 500g bag and keep ~100g in a CoffeVac (CoffeVac.com) in the fridge. I use ~20/21g per day. The rest goes in the freezer in the original packaging based on evidence based research for preserving freshness https://europeancoffeetrip.com/coffee-freshness-science/

12. Beans: I’ve now bought new beans https://www.beanberrycoffee.com/products/ethiopia-sidamo-bochesa-organic . This has significantly reduced the issue though still getting a single fine jet from the bottom of the basket (current grind is returning 10bar at 25secs so am planning to increase grind size slightly until I drop to 9bar for approx 25secs)

I’ve seen a video of bottomless of extraction on the Profitec Move using all OEM kit at almost 14bar with no issues and a smooth extraction. My point here being that I really shouldn’t be seeing this leaking/jetting at 10bar?

Hope this info helps.

JammyDodger

I agree with Jake, this is very likely also happening on your Rancillio but is obscured by the spouted portafilter.

I’d carefully review puck prep (ensuring good WDT or tap levelling to get a nice level bed) and the spraying/channeling should settle down.

It’s likely you noticed water coming out of the sides of the portafilter as the gasket that allows the portafilter to seal is new, and therefore slightly inflexible at this point. I believe Profitec uses a standard black rubber gasket which takes a bit of time to soften up. You could either lock and unlock the PF 10-20 times to try to soften it up, or switch to a silicone gasket instead which should solve the issue.

dfk41

Is the bottomless OEM supplied or an aftermarket one please? I had the same issue and found the issue was the actual aftermarket handle. The spritzing is just you matey. The seal leak, I reverted back to an OEM spouted handle and the problem was solved. I honestly do not get the fascination with bottomless pf’s!

Adrianmsmith

dfk41 I honestly do not get the fascination with bottomless pf’s!

For me that one is very simple.

Never used spouted pf as my mug wont fit under it.

Bottomless is perfect but not for la creuset mugs. Too tall even with bottomless. They were a bad impulse buy!!

Never had spraying issues either with bottomless

And a quick rince under group head and that’s it clean and ready to go.

Its not mentioned what grinder this guy is using. Surely that could be part of the issue…..

marksp21

DavecUK

Thanks for your time.

I’m posting a single response which pulls together questions frome everyone.

2. Gasket integrity: No leaking whatsoever when I use a blind basket, so I’m assuming the gasket seal is good.

3. Portafilter: Is OEM, came with the Profitec

4. Basket: Tried both the 21g supplied with the Profitec and my own VST 18g.

5. Grinder: Ceado E5P

6. Shower Screen: Here’s what water delivery looks like at the shower screen

What we can’t see is what that delivery looks like at 9 bar.

8. Grind: I’ve tried grinding finer and that makes the problem significantly worse

9. Dose: 20/21g

11. Beans: I’ve been using https://www.beanberrycoffee.com/products/javascript . I buy a 500g bag and keep ~100g in a CoffeVac (CoffeVac.com) in the fridge. I use ~20/21g per day. The rest goes in the freezer in the original packaging based on evidence based research for preserving freshness https://europeancoffeetrip.com/coffee-freshness-science/

12. Beans: I’ve now bought new beans https://www.beanberrycoffee.com/products/ethiopia-sidamo-bochesa-organic . This has significantly reduced the issue though still getting a single fine jet from the bottom of the basket (current grind is returning 10bar at 25secs so am planning to increase grind size slightly until I drop to 9bar for approx 25secs)

Hope this info helps.

marksp21

Thanks everyone for your time.

I’m posting a single response which pulls together questions frome everyone.

2. Gasket integrity: No leaking whatsoever when I use a blind basket, so I’m assuming the gasket seal is good.

3. Portafilter: Is OEM, came with the Profitec

4. Basket: Tried both the 21g supplied with the Profitec and my own VST 18g.

5. Grinder: Ceado E5P

6. Shower Screen: Here’s what water delivery looks like at the shower screen What we can’t see is what that delivery looks like at 9 bar.

8. Grind: I’ve tried grinding finer and that makes the problem significantly worse

9. Dose: 20/21g

Hope this info helps.

Adrianmsmith

marksp21 Here’s what water delivery looks like at the shower screen What we can’t see is what that delivery looks like at 9 bar.

thats not 9 bars. its an open system so near zero bars, but thats not a lot of flow.

do another video showing the puck and the actual shot in progress

MediumRoastSteam

marksp21 4. Basket: Tried both the 21g supplied with the Profitec and my own VST 18g.
marksp21 9. Dose: 20/21g

If you are using the VST 18g basket - dose 18 grams in it. Are you overdosing the basket? Are you sure the OEM supplied basket is a 21g basket? That feels strange.

marksp21 I buy a 500g bag and keep _100g in a CoffeVac (CoffeVac.com) in the fridge
Don’t keep coffee in the fridge; Keep in a dark and cool place instead.

marksp21 The rest goes in the freezer in the original packaging based on evidence based research for preserving freshness
If you are going to freeze coffee - make sure the packaging is sealed fully, all the air from inside removed, and the one way valve is covered.

Adrianmsmith thats not 9 bars. its an open system so near zero bars, but thats not a lot of flow.
Looks fine to me (visually) for a vibe pump machine. I’d just remove that shower screen and clean it behind it.

Cuprajake id clean that shower screen, move back to the stock basket, vst are very hard baskets to tame,
Agree with Jake here.

marksp21 12. Beans: I’ve now bought new beans https://www.beanberrycoffee.com/products/ethiopia-sidamo-bochesa-organic .

Have you tried a different roaster? Or, for the sake of consistency, some Illy or Lavazza beans from the supermarket?

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the machine - I think that’s prep and technique. If you could video your prep routine (grind, dose, prep, tamp , pull) - with clearly showing the input weight of beans and output weight (video the shot, the weight, and the timings) that would be great.

Cuprajake

does it have a low flow start?

do you use a puck screen

id clean that shower screen, move back to the stock basket, vst are very hard baskets to tame, most use ims comp and they are easier,

giampiero

What happen if you don’t use the pre infusion/blooming function?

marksp21

giampiero

Hi, tried that too. Same result unfortunately

Tal

Did you use a bottomless PF with the Silvia? Same beans or are these new to you?

marksp21

Tal Never used a bottomless of prior to this machine. Been getting beans from this supplier for a few years now.

Thanks everyone for your time.

I’m posting a single response which pulls together questions frome everyone.

2. Gasket integrity: No leaking whatsoever when I use a blind basket, so I’m assuming the gasket seal is good.

3. Portafilter: Is OEM, came with the Profitec

4. Basket: Tried both the 21g supplied with the Profitec and my own VST 18g.

5. Grinder: Ceado E5P

6. Shower Screen: Here’s what water delivery looks like at the shower screen What we can’t see is what that delivery looks like at 9 bar.

8. Grind: I’ve tried grinding finer and that makes the problem significantly worse

9. Dose: 20/21g

Hope this info helps.