Hi all, This is my first machine, just purchased this past week. I have the MaraX set up in brew priority mode, and the temperature setting I (on the left side). I’ve noticed that my steam pressure never gets to 1.5 bars, it maxes out at the reading right between 1 and 1.5 bars, assume 1.25 bars? This is after I pull a shot, or if I activate the lever and flush the steam wand to get the steam to pressure. I’ve seen other workflows and videos of users that have their steam pressure at 1.5 bars so I’m wondering if there’s something wrong with my machine? For what it’s worth, while steaming the pressure stays right around 1 bar - so I can still steam my milk, but not at the same speed or temperature. Any insights? Thank you!

@"fl13dl1c3"#p6792 - check this thread - any resemblance? https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/186-lelit-marax-firmware-flashing Makes me wonder whether they have updated the firmware….

@"fl13dl1c3"#p6792 The other thing to check is that you are not in HX mode. The smaller 2 position switch on the right when you remove the drop tray. What are the pressures shown when you're not using the machine to make coffee.

> @"fl13dl1c3"#p6792 Any insights? Thank you! As @"MediumRoastSteam"#p6795 said, have a look at the link to the other thread because you might have a similar issue. I doubt that this is intended or the result of a new firmware, as 1) It doesn't make sense that Lelit intentionally changed the firmware so that you will have 1 bar of pressure when steaming; and 2) The other user experiencing this (@"MisterH1337"#256) contacted Lelit and they confirmed that it is not right (and the latest we heard they suggested replacing the Gicar box). If you upload a video of your machine's manometer during use (or even better, a time lapse video of the manometer when you start your machine from cold for about half an hour), it will be easier to confirm if the behaviour is normal or not. Alternatively, have a look at the videos uploaded to the other thread and see if your machine behaves similarly to @"MisterH1337"#256's or to a machine that doesn't have the issue.

> @"DavecUK"#p6796 The other thing to check is that you are not in HX mode. The smaller 2 position switch on the right when you remove the drop tray. It's on the brew priority mode (ModeX) in the top I position. I believe the steam pressure sits around 0.5 bars to 0.875 bars(?) (the middle of the 0.75 bars to 1 bar marker) after the machine has been on and warmed up 30+ minutes. > @"Doram"#p6801 As [MediumRoastSteam](https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/343/2) said, have a look at the link to the other thread because you might have a similar issue I watched some videos and it seems pretty similar to MisterH1337. From cold to warmup, my max steam pressure goes to 2 bars, vesus watching Doram's timelapse that goes up to 2.75 bars. I've never steamed two milk jugs back to back so I don't know if the second steaming would result in pressure dropping below 1 bar. I ran a test after the machine was on 30+ minutes, flushed it to get the boiler running and steam pressure maxed at 1.25bars. Then "steamed" for 30+ seconds (letting it run without steaming anything), it ran at 1 bar in its entirety. Turned off the steam. Waited 15 seconds or so, turned the steam back on to run for 30+ seconds and it started off running at 1 bar, but dropped slightly to 0.8 bar for a couple of seconds before going back up to 1 bar the rest of the time. As for my expectations in steaming and whether it's actually working fine and just the manometer reading incorrectly - I don't have a baseline as to what to expect from steaming as this is my first machine. My milk jug gets hot to the touch enough that I can't hold it for >1 second so that's when I presume the temperature is hot enough. > @"MediumRoastSteam"#p6795 Makes me wonder whether they have updated the firmware…. Not sure if this tidbit of info is helpful but my machine was manufactured May 2021

@"Doram"#54 I checked your other video in the thread referenced with your machine @ Steam priority mode & PID setting 2. Your machine showed steam pressure idling around 1.5 bars. Mine is sitting at 1.25 bars after switching it to the steam mode, PID setting 2 after the machine was warmed up for 45+ minutes. I found this advanced technical manual for the machine here: https://www.home-barista.com/downloads/Lelit_MaraX_PL62X_Explanation.pdf And my steam pressure gauge does not match the expected pressures in steam priority mode (page 2 - 3). In setting 0 my gauge sits at 0.75 bars (manual shows it at 1 bar) In setting 1 my gauge sits at 1 bar (manual shows it at 1.25 bars) In setting 2 my gauge sits at 1.25 bars (manual shows it at 1.5 bars) Something doesn't seem right after looking at all of this and experimenting and comparing...

> @"fl13dl1c3"#p6810 I believe the steam pressure sits around 0.5 bars to 0.875 bars(?) (the middle of the 0.75 bars to 1 bar marker) after the machine has been on and warmed up 30+ minutes. You say **steam pressure** sits around 0.5 yo 0.875 bar, but then you say this is after the machine warmed up for 30+ minutes. Do you mean that this is the **idle brew pressure**? (because what you describe sounds like this is the idle brew pressure [which would be absolutely fine], but you call it "steam pressure" [which absolutely isn't fine]). In any case, you say your machine maxes at 2 bar during the warmup cycle. This, as far as I know, isn't how it should work. You haven't uploaded a video, but from what you say you have a similar issue to @"MisterH1337"#256 (maybe not as bad, but the same sort of thing). If this is the case, I think the first suspects are the temp probes, followed by the Gicar box. If I were you, I would make this time-lapse video, share it with your retailer and/or Lelit and ask for the machine to be replaced (or fixed, if you don't have that option).

> @"Doram"#p6825 idle brew pressure? What’s idle brew pressure? 😉 - if the pump is not engaged and not brewing, shouldn’t the brew pressure be 0?

> @"MediumRoastSteam"#p6826 What’s idle brew pressure? 😉 - if the pump is not engaged and not brewing, shouldn’t the brew pressure be 0? I know you are joking, but there are people here new to the hobby so as not to confuse them: This is the pressure that the Mara X idles at after warmup, ready to brew a shot. OP described his machine as being at the right pressure for that idling, but called it "steam pressure", so I was trying to confirm what he actually meant. Maybe "idle brew pressure" isn't the best term, so you are welcome to suggest something better. ;-)

> @"Doram"#p6827 I know you are joking Nope! I’m dead serious. 🤣😊👍 I thinking you might call it “idling service boiler pressure”, but I think, IMO, the OPs terminology is better than idling brew pressure, which alludes to the pressure in the brew circuit (I.e.: the bottom half of the gauge). I see what you were trying to say though - I think you refer to “brew pressure” because the machine is idling in brew priority mode. To me, regardless of the mode the machine is in, the top half of the gauge shows the service boiler pressure (aka steam pressure) and the bottom half the brew pressure (aka pump pressure). Semantics hey… 😊👍

MaraX low steam pressure?

Doram

fl13dl1c3 It feels like it’s unintended too. I’ve watched workflow videos of newer machines (the one with the new black logo) and their steam pressure looks to be similar like yours post brew.

I’ve contacted my retailer for now with this info and will see what they say. If it doesn’t go anywhere I will include messaging Lelit as well.

I am pretty confident something isn’t right with your machine, just trying to be cautions when saying I don’t know for sure. :-).

We have seen others having similar issues, and as far as I remember most were solved with new temperature probes. The last report from a recent case that looks similar to yours is Lelit suggesting to replace the Gicar box (but this is after a temp probe replacement at the top of the boiler didn’t solve the issue). So this direction would be my guess for what is wrong with your machine.

fl13dl1c3

@MediumRoastSteam How long does it take for you to steam your milk? How much cold milk is in the jug, and which type of milk? Thanks.

I steamed 175ml of whole milk straight out of the refrigerator. It took me about 55 seconds to get it to a temp that was too hot to touch >1 second.
Does the performance of the steam work as expected?

MediumRoastSteam

fl13dl1c3 - hmm…. Feels a bit slow - but I have an Elizabeth. There was a thread on this forum where we shared some metrics… I’ll see if I find it. Or @Doram can just let us know how long it takes for him. 👌

Doram

MediumRoastSteam fl13dl1c3 - hmm…. Feels a bit slow - but I have an Elizabeth. There was a thread on this forum where we shared some metrics… I’ll see if I find it. Or @Doram can just let us know how long it takes for him. 👌

Don’t know if you remember, but we had the exact same question from someone who steamed 200 grams of milk, and I made a video of steaming 200g from the fridge for comparison. Pulled that video and it’s about one minute to get from fridge temp to ~60C.

So 55 seconds for 175ml isn’t completely off the board, which makes sense as the machine’s pressure is just slightly low (~1.25 after steam boost instead of 1.5).

MediumRoastSteam

Doram - totally agree with the above. And I remember the talks, but didn’t remember where the video was. 😊👍 -

logjames

Doram

My US version from 10/2020 behaves the same as Doram’s. It heats up to around 2.75bar on initial warm-up and steam boosts to around 1.5bar after the first shot is pulled.

fl13dl1c3

@Doram Situation 1 is when the machine is ready to brew a shot of coffee. For this we expect the pressure to be ₀.5-0.8 bar (call it whatever you want)

I actually saw my machine’s idle pressure all the way as low as 0.3 bar today. I assume this isn’t normal either?

Doram

fl13dl1c3 I actually saw my machine’s idle pressure all the way as low as 0.3 bar today. I assume this isn’t normal either?

If ‘normal’ is how my machine behaves then no, it’s not normal. You can see in my warmup and idling after a shot time-lapse videos that the idling pressure doesn’t go below 0.5 bar.

fl13dl1c3

As an update, I reached out to both my supplier and Lelit. The supplier said they would investigate and get back to me and Lelit provided some feedback.
After some back and forth of their suggestions and me providing videos, their feedback is that my machine is operating normally. They said that if I want higher steam pressure I should pull the lever for a couple of seconds prior to my workflow as to “wake up” the machine. Their suggested workflow:
Flush -> Grind -> Brew -> Prepare milk - Steam milk.
They suggested a 2 minute time difference between flushing and brewing (said my 120v machine heats slower than the 240v counterparts)
I saw a minimal increase in pressure to about 1.3 bars instead of 1.25 bar. But it’s insignificant because once I open the valve for steam it drops to 1 bar regardless.

Not sure how much more I can push this issue or if I even should. The machine does work - I can steam my milk albeit maybe 10 seconds slower? Still it doesn’t feel great knowing that my machine can’t get to the same pressure as others.

MisterH1337

fl13dl1c3

Hi, this is their usual response. That’s what they told me.

The only thing different in your reply is that they mentioned the 120v being an issue, but in my country, we use 220v but mine still seems to behave the same as you. (Not to mentioned plenty of other users of the machine here with perfectly normal steam performance)

I’d ask your retailer to swap the HX temp probe (and not the service boiler temp probe) I think it might be faking on my machine, hence the PID makes bad decisions in thermal regulation.

As mentioned in my thread, my supplier should replace my Gicar box, but I don’t believe it will make any difference. I’ll as them to swap out the HX probe and water level sensor just to be sure, hope they’ll be cool with it.

fl13dl1c3

MisterH1337 I’d ask your retailer to swap the HX temp probe (and not the service boiler temp probe) I think it might be faking on my machine, hence the PID makes bad decisions in thermal regulation.

From my understanding, there are two temperature sensors on the boiler, one on top and the other on the bottom?

Your retailer already replaced the sensor on top and that didn’t fix your issue, and now you will ask them to replace the bottom sensor as well as the gicar box?

I’m looking at Lelit Insider youtube videos and came across this one where he points to the NTC(?) probe @ 33 seconds which I assume is the other bottom sensor.

I’ll await your results after your next visit with your retailer and see if that fixes your issue (I wish I could bring mine in without shipping it - they’re 4+ hours away!). If it does fix your issue it looks like a fairly simple swap for the temp sensor - Lelit Insider has a separate video on replacing the top temperature sensor for steam and it was just a simple swap and I assume the same steps for the bottom sensor.

I also have to ask, when was your machine manufactured? Wonder if it’s a similar batch as mine was May 2021.

MisterH1337

fl13dl1c3

Mine was manufactured on 07/21.

I don’t think it’s a bad batch, but a rather permissive range of what they consider “functioning enough to ship out” at factory.

I still bet my money on some poorly assembled components, not being sealed/secured correctly. Maybe even the steam wand or manometer assembly. Something mechanical that would explain a severe drop in pressure as soon as I begin steaming and the very slow time it takes to buildup afterward even when I’m forcing a steam boost.

A cool test on your end would be maybe connecting to the gicar UART if you have the technical capacity to do so and get the temp sensors readings as well as the FW version you have.

Alpesh

I’ve seen several of these video’s before and informative but is it just me who winces at how he handles the machines?

DavecUK

Alpesh ’ve seen several of these video’s before and informative but is it just me who winces at how he handles the machines?

I do as well, but it depends on your perspective and how you see the machines.

When I review a production machine, it’s usually going back to be sold, so I have to keep it looking like new…hence the use of grip mats etc.. and I am super careful when removing the case. so much so people used to ask to buy the machine I had reviewed, because they knew it was checked over.
Repairing machines…I am very casual about it and the use of substitute parts, because to me, it’s usually no biggie
Prototype machines won’t be sold and may have issues, I’m casual about that, they are essentially valueless to most people
Lelit will see a machine they are making a demo video on for repairs etc.. as essentially valueless, it will never be sold, just used to show repairs
I find it much harder to get excited about machines that are no prototypes now…with all their attendant issues.

I remember the 2nd alpha 2 minima with the coloured gauge, ACS wanted it back to break down for spares. It was a well working machine, I said that’s not right to do. I can sell it for you and give you the money…they were surprised anyone would want it. I can’t remember who bought it now, but it was very cheap.

fl13dl1c3

MisterH1337

So I have been emailing Lelit back and forth, showing them on video how the steam pressure reacts through all the different scenarios they gave, and lastly mentioned to them that in steam mode PID level 2, the steam pressure only goes up to 1.25 bars. I asked if that was normal - and they responded that the manometer has some tolerance and my described situation is within their standard.

So my take from this is that they either think the manometer may be off a bit, or if that’s not the case, that this steam pressure is acceptable.

Not sure how I feel! I hope you have a resolution working directly with your supplier, and I will try to take that same route if yours works out.

MisterH1337

fl13dl1c3

This message about the manometer tolerance is exactly what they told me!
As long as I can’t compare my machine side by side to a normal machine, I can’t know if the steam performance is acceptable or not. I only know that if I steam with a 4-hole tip, I can still get a “swirl” going even if the pressure is 0.7bar during the steaming, so I can still make some latte art.

If replacing the Gicar won’t help, I’ll have to live with it I guess.. :/

MediumRoastSteam

MisterH1337 I only know that if I steam with a 4-hole tip, I can still get a “swirl” going even if the pressure is 0.7bar during the steaming, so I can still make some latte art.

If you can use a 4 hole steam tip (why?) - the machine is designed for the 2 hole steam tip which works very well - and at 0.7bar you can make milk spin and draw late art, then trust me, your manometer is way off. 🤣

DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam definitely agree with this…even a single hole tip would possibly work ell, slower steaming, but no slower than an early Decent Espresso machine, or most other thermoblocks

MisterH1337

MediumRoastSteam

Just tested again to make sure, the manometer is more towards 0.9 than 0.7 when I use the 4-holes team tip.

MediumRoastSteam

MisterH1337 - Even then. With a 4 hole steam tip, the pressure would need to be above 1.3bar or thereabouts. Something is not right. Unless, of course, you can’t steam properly (due to weak steam) and it’s taking ages to steam the milk. But that’s another story.

By the sounds of it… You rmanotmeter is off. Actually, there’s a test you can do:

Turn machine off, let machine cool down completely, for a few hours;
Turn machine on, and pay close attention to the manometer and listen out for when the vacuum breaker closes. You will hear some hissing, and a brief amount of water and steam will end up in the drip tray. That’s the point when water reached around 100C. (you might even be able to monitor it all if you connected to the Gicar box). From that time on, the manometer should start moving shortly after.
Question is: Does it?
Also, if you still have your machine connected, when the pressure gauge reads 0.7bar, what’s the actual temperature being recorded? Or, when your machine is idling, what’s the pressure reading and what’s the temperature recorded?

If you could video, that would be great. Although, I have a feeling we already discussed this. But I can’t remember if we have.

MisterH1337

MediumRoastSteam

Hi, forgot to mention I did the test.

When my gicar reads 100c, indeed i see some steam and hissing sound in the drip tray, but the manometer doesn’t begin to move up until 110c is shown, which is more than a minute after the hissing sound ended.

When the machine is stable and the gicar reads 112c (which is also the coffee mode setpoint) , the manometer is at 0.3-0.25bar

When the gicar reads 116c-117c I’m finally at 0.5bar. sometimes when I walk up to the machine its indeed showing 0.5 bar and that is the temperature (setpoint still at 112)

fl13dl1c3

MisterH1337 MediumRoastSteam

So for my dense skull, what does the results of the test mean? Is the manometer working properly?

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