Ratios

NewBoyUK

If you have a recipe of 17g in and 34 out in 25s…… its 1:2

So if you do 21 in and 42 out in the same time - will that make it under or over extracted? Surely it will be under?

My head says the grind will be coarser so not getting all you can out of the bean where if its finer your getting the lot?

Am i thinking wrong? Too deep? Or will it just be stronger in a milk drink?

Just when I thought its clicked I question myself 😔

hornbyben

21g coffee to 42g espresso in 25-30s should be similarly extracted to 17g coffee to 34g espresso in the same time. It’s the ratio that’s important.

You’ll obviously have more espresso though, so if you add each of them to the same amount of milk the one with more espresso will be stronger.

MWJB

The time won’t have too much influence, but essentially what hornyben says.

“If you have a recipe of 17g in and 34 out in 25s…… its 1:2” it’s still 1:2 in 20s, or at 50s. If you’re brewing by ratio, you’re not brewing by time.

If your extractions at 17:34 are good, and you just go 21:42 (in an appropriate basket of course) but at too fine a grind, then extractions will drop instead of continually rising. You never get “the lot” nor do you want to. You only need to get what tastes great (which may err on the higher side. but you’re still leaving around a third of the solubles in the basket).

Alpesh

The video below conveniently posted a few hours ago might help explain:

MWJB

Alpesh Not really, in fact it is more confusing than it needs to be.

A ratio is a ratio.

A time is a time,

They largely overlap, but are not interlocking.

Pull a tasty & balance 1:3 shot, then pull a 1:1 shot in the same time. You won’t have just changed the ratio, you absolutely will have changed the extraction.

Usually when discussing coffee & brew ratio it is assumed you’re just changing the strength at a good flavour balance, not skewing the taste with abnormal extractions.

Not that certain regions of low extraction aren’t enjoyable, they are, but then you don’t need to worry about time at all, just grind & ratio.

Mark-drinks-coffee

MWJB but then you don’t need to worry about time at all, just grind & ratio.

Can I just clarify please: even if the ratio is the same, I would have thought 1:3 in 20s must be differently extracted to 1:3 in 40s?

Are you saying that within a region (let’s call it 25-35s) then the exact time doesn’t impact the extraction but significantly outside of that it will? Or that if the ratio is the same then time has no impact on extraction?

MWJB

Mark-drinks-coffee The coffee you use will impact the time at the same ratio & extraction. Your grinder can shift the time to at same ratio & extraction.

It you’re pulling a 1:1 shot you’re unlikely to hit a normal, or high extraction, whatever the time. Very fast (10-15s), short shots can be tasty, if you deliberately aim for a very low extraction.

Your example of 1:3 in 20 or 40s is already a range of +100%/-50%…that’s such a wide variation as to not be useful. The determining actor on which your prefer will be 1:3 at the grind setting that gives you a shot you like, wherever the time falls. Grind setting does the work at your chosen ratio.