So light / medium / dark are quite self explanatory. But then there are filter / espresso / omni. Some roasters give a roast level, some roasters separate by 'brew method'. When giving a roast level, some say 'good for filter and/or espresso', some say nothing. When categorising by brew method, same again, some reference roast level and others do not. So, if you want to brew a coffee by multiple methods, how do you go about selecting beans? Are there certain things you look for?

Great post and it is timely. We drink espresso either as a black or as a latte. However, I also brew every day either a V60 or a clever — if I want a long steep. My family isn’t a fan of fruity notes. They prefer medium dark, if not darker roasts. I love light and medium light. It’s difficult to strike a balance. I grab a bag and if I find it as medium dark, I always freeze them mostly for family use (ex: Chocolate Point, Bom Jesus and most of Extract Coffee roasts). Increasingly, I am staying clear of roasts , which are meant for espresso. I find them too dark (medium dark) to my taste buds. These days, I call the roasters and ask for medium light or light. Otherwise, I will only buy if the bag mentions both espresso and filter. My question is, are not filter roasts fit for espresso? The roasters always discourage this. My view is they are relatively on the lighter side and is also good for espresso , if that’s what we are after. Any views?

> @"LMSC"#p9537 My question is, are not filter roasts fit for espresso? The roasters always discourage this. My view is they are relatively on the lighter side and is also good for espresso , if that’s what we are after. Any views? Sometimes they can be sometimes not…it depends heavily on the type/origin of coffee. I just had a light roasted Colombian twice fermented as espresso and it was great….good in filter too.

@"DavecUK"#p9539 Hmm. You have been doing this for ages. Could you give us pointers - regions whose filter roasts are suitable also for espresso or otherwise ? It will really be useful.

@"LMSC"#p9543 It's not that easy…but generally kenyans, mexicans, some ethiopians….but it does depend on the particular coffee e. The only way really is to try it and see how you like it.

@"DavecUK"#p9544 Sounds like the start of a bad joke… So as well as origin, is there anything in the first profile that can influence which brew methods might be better? I've heard beans from Guatemala can be difficult to extract using filter, so I've avoided then to date. Perhaps over cautiously. I am like @"LMSC"#p9537 - I really enjoy a variety of brew methods and am now really finding I prefer things on the lighter side. Thankfully so does my wife on the roast side of things, but really only drinks lattes. Trying lots of different origins from different roasters is a lot of fun, but perhaps need a couple of staples to subsist alongside wider experimentation.

I think there is almost an expectation that espresso means relatively dark as that's what is "traditional". I know this is quite a generalisation and good roasters will offer a range of espresso roasts. I personally prefer medium to lighter roasts.

@"PortafilterProcrastinator"#p9546 Oddly enough I prefer Guatemalan as filter.

@"LMSC"#p9543 have you tried North Star? They don’t roast for a particular brew method although may suggest what it suits best, often both filter and espresso. As others have mentioned Foundry is worth checking out too. As with you I find beans roasted for espresso to be medium/dark in profile so tend to avoid them if I am looking to try a new and interesting light roast. I’ll lean towards roasters who don’t specify roast level or brew method and simply go by tasting notes and the included details of the coffee. Occasionally I might cup a new coffee to set a benchmark before trying it as espresso, V60 and aeropress.

> @"Dusk"#p9547 almost an expectation that espresso means relatively dark Unfortunately, that’s been my experience. We get a bag stating medium, it isn’t. It’s medium dark. We have a popular bag of a particular origin from a popular roaster, it’s surprisingly unevenly roasted. @"PortafilterProcrastinator"#p9546 Haven’t settled on a coffee that I would like as a subscription yet.

> @"HVL87"#p9560 have you tried North Star? T Thx for the tip. I have Foundry recommendation from @"MediumRoastSteam"#51 on top of my list for next month. I will add Northstar to the list.

What's In a Roast?

PortafilterProcrastinator

tompoland Do you have a preferred first level/ roaster?

PortafilterProcrastinator

LMSC I’ve just had my first disappointing bag roast-wise. Although getting my machine has got the best out of it.

I think a little change in tack might be needed, at least as an experiment. Buy by roast level only and see what the differences are across brew methods.

LMSC

PortafilterProcrastinator

Was there before. I find light and medium light are good for both espresso and views. We are then on a sliding scale to the right for brews. The medium is passable for me, though not a great fan. The fruity and floral bags come out on top.

The espresso roasts are no go for brews; the bags that mention both espresso and filter can be either good or just ok for brews.

The risk of going by roast level is, I find some of the roasters labelling of the roast level as too generous on the left (starting with light). That’s the challenge. 😊

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC - Also, some coffees roast levels might not necessarily convey their development time. For instance, a decaf coffee will always look a lot darker than it’s non-decaf cousin - if it makes sense.

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam It does. Does it mean, the lack of chemical components, which make up Caffeine, accelerate the roasting process making the beans darker - all other things being equal in terms of roast parameters? For simplicity, I am ignoring the origin and the other characteristics of beans.

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC - No idea of the reasons why. I just noticed from experienced and that was also what a the head roaster at Rave told me a few years back.

LMSC

Some get to know decaf reads examples

It’s the removal of caffeine and the decaf process, both of which result in weaker shell contributing to the overall darkness compared to the normal beans roast.

https://perfectdailygrind.com/2017/11/what-roasters-need-to-know-about-decaf-coffee/

https://www.sagebrushcoffee.com/blogs/education/swiss-water-decaf-coffee-looks-dark

DavecUK

LMSC The first article had an interesting -photo. The beans in the first container look a tad…uneven?

At first I thought the top one was a mix/blend, but I read it again, and I think the top one is the decaffeinated version.

LMSC

DavecUK Yes, the top is the decaf and the bottom the regular. They say Swiss water gives a uniform colour; but, the photo is different unless lighting, angle, resolution are respnsible.

tompoland

@PortafilterProcrastinator I roast my own beans. Not sure what “first level” means. Have I answered your question though?

PortafilterProcrastinator

tompoland Sorry, roast level! Not checking autocorrect on my phone.

Question answered indeed. I think it will be a good few decades before I have the time to experiment with roasting.

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC - Dave hit the nail in the head there:

DavecUK The only way really is to try it and see how you like it

Just because someone says this is an espresso roast or this coffee is only good for filter, it doesn’t mean the same applies to you. After all, you are pushing water under pressure through coffee. Whether it tastes good or bad you are the only one who can tell whether you like it or not. If it wasn’t for some people who bought the third wave of coffee upon us, we would still be drinking some dark roasted robusta rich espresso typically served on Italian bars…. And would think that was the one and only way forward.

Let me tell you a funny story: I once went to visit Dave and brought some coffee with me that I was really pleased with, enjoyed and liked it… a lot. I shared some with Dave, and we both had an espresso. I loved it, and would happily order it again - and did. Dave, on the other hand, thought the coffee was so bad it might’ve been a roast defect. 😊

So, moral of the story: it’s all a reference point. Let your tastebuds guide you.

PortafilterProcrastinator

MediumRoastSteam Exactly this and the reason for my post. When you’ve not got much experience (or at least, the way I think about things still being a novice) then you tend to go a lot by what you are told, rather than asking the question ‘what does this actually mean’?

I’ve wondered if a roast profile can affect the bias towards filter or espresso not just ‘roast level’ - but again, this assumes there is a ‘right’/ ‘better’ way to roast for a specific brew method as a standard, which there isn’t (within reason - e.g. dark/ very dark roast as a filter - but the again, there will be someone out there who likes it!).

A lot of this also stems from having no real knowledge of the roasting process. Something else to become more familiar with, purely from the perspective of being more informed when buying beans.

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam I take your experience on board. We also understand from experience of buying beans from Roasters. Some examples from my experience of the bags I tried are :

Extract coffee descriptions of roast level are often consistent
Rave’s, Goats, Compass and Casuals are off the mark and I often find them skewed to the right. The only exception for Casuals is Kenyan
Blackcat’s is ok
Crankhouse - consistent

I am enjoying Blackcat’s Costa Rican. I do want to try their Ethiopian. Foundry is on top of my list at the moment. I checked the North Star site last night; I find them very expensive. A lot of their bags are £48 a KG.

PortafilterProcrastinator

LMSC This is really interesting and helpful. I have not bought enough from one roaster to be able to gauge consistency.

On the price point - Crankhouse is surely up there with North Star for price?

LMSC

PortafilterProcrastinator We have purchased enough from Extract, Compass, Blackcat and Raves. We never had a filter roast from Extract, which we are open to in addition to decaf from both Extract and Raves. We are ok to buy from Blackcat.

My family likes less fruity and medium dark coffee; one or two bags — Betty — from Extract is good. The Mount Kercini from Compass is also good. I am not sure what I would like to buy as a subscription for them.

Goats - just had two bags. Good coffee, off description and were without roast dates. It only had the best before dates. They said they were a month old. Offered a refund or a replacement. I didn’t take either. A lot of beehive after a shot was pulled. Won’t buy again for the lack of a roast date and the roast level not consistent.

Casuals - off the mark. I will only buy Kenyan Mikari from them. I bought a KG each two times so far.

I think Crankhouse is cheaper than North Star. I only purchased a bag from Crankhouse - Izuba washed. This was a light roast.

Hope it helps! Thx

SteveBRS

A photo of my Bom Jesus Brazilian natural beans, roasted on my Behmor last week. A bit of scorching on some beans, but not easy to completely avoid. The Niche ground beans would indicate a lighter roast level than just looking at the beans.

MediumRoastSteam

Given where we are with espresso machines this days, which can control all sorts of temperatures, pressures, flows, profiles etc… I don’t think there is a distinction between an espresso roast and a filter roast anymore. Maybe 20 years ago, but not so much now. In my view, of course.

Who would think that a “juicy banger” would be any good as an espresso 20 years or so ago? Not many, I don’t think.

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam I don’t think there is a distinction between an espresso roast and a filter roast anymore

Not sure, I agree with this. I have purchased a lot of espresso roasts, which tends be on the darker side, unless the roaster states it is good for both.

tompoland

@PortafilterProcrastinator Ah… roast level. Got it. I started roasting last April with the aim of mastering dark roasts first I.e. being able to produce a really top notch dark roasted espresso, batch after batch. That took about six months. My intention was to then work My way to medium and then light which I’m now doing. Always learning of course, will be for decades I hope.

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC - Precisely my point. Buy “filter roasts” therefore and use them to brew espresso. 😀

ps: I’m not sure whether the placement of the comma after “Not sure” is strategic or a mistake. :-) - Assumed it was a mistake. If not, disregard my comment above :-)

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