Cuprajake i like the idea, but so far what ive seen i dont like, purely because you have excess liquid come which you then have to account for,

I think this is worthy of pursuit.

Sure, releasing the pressure in the group head via the left paddle is a big plus for me because I like to:

a) to remove the portafilter
b) empty the grounds into the knock box
c) rinse the basket
d) wipe the shower screen clean and
e) replace the portafilter in the group head before I
f) enjoy the espresso, feeling secure in the knowledge that the Nurri is spotless

All of that without one drip of espresso from post pour hitting the drip tray. That’s just my OCD coming out of course but still, it cuts down on my psychiatry sessions 😀

BUT … if the group head pressure could be relieved without the release of water from the group head that would be even better. Maybe that is what Dave is working on with Paolo? Or maybe that’s simply not possible given the design of levers.

Because of Jake’s helpful persistence in making his point, I measured the amount of water that is discharged in one use of the left paddle. Each use of the left paddle releases 49mm of hot water into the drip tray. Do that three times a day and we’re up to almost 150ml of water in the drip tray that could have been in the boiler still. That close to a litre over a week. From my side, that’s worth it to be able to complete steps a - f above but if I could do it without wasting that water, that would certainly be better.

BTW this morning I paid closer attention to the volume of espresso that flowed into the cup after I nudged the left paddle: 9 grams. So I need to use the paddle at 26 grams to end up with 36 grams in the cup. (Delicious it was too, thanks for asking).

      tompoland

      How would it be possible not to waste that water? Because I would expect that is the volume of water left in the grouphead when you cut the shot, so since thta water isn’t needed, it has to be vented out. Even if the drip into tupperware technique is used, that water would still be wasted…

          No idea. Probably just wishful thinking. Or maybe there is a way to waste less water.

          chlorox Even if the drip into tupperware technique is used, that water would still be wasted…

          True true.

              tompoland

              I imagine that in order to achieve that sort of control a new lever grouphead would need to be designed that can immediately control by demand the exact volume of water that is allowed to enter the grouphead on every pull. If it can also be possible to easily change the spring pressure on demand as well, the possibilities would be mouthwatering…

                  DavecUK That’s exactly what Paolo and I discussed (venting the group head) after I tested the system on the Vostok 1 group in October and used it at the Trieste show. Those changes have been done and I will be checking them when I go out next.

                  @chlorox looks like Dave is onto it …

                      Last week I measured the water that came out of the group

                      The shot was around 30g and once the cup moved there was 40g left in my porcelain drip catcher (Hoffman bean dispenser) so the group injects around 70ml of water per shot.

                      I think my Londo used to be around 50ml from memory

                      So whatever isn’t in the cup ends up in either the drip tray or a container of some sort.

                      Are you nurri owners flushing the group before shots, I’ve never done this,

                      I know I sound like a dog with a bone and it probably has no bearing on taste but that last 9ml into the cup is coming out of the group under no pressure, so in terms of extraction we have no idea what it’s dragging through when most shots are done at a certain flow/pressure, this goes for any machine that has a dribble at the end of a shot.

                      My very first sage haha

                      I’d be interested to see it with a naked pf

                      But I get what @chlorox is saying it’s a useful feature if you’re doing two cups, perhaps thats why it’s not getting my attention as I only make single drinks and never split shots,

                      Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                        Cuprajake probably has no bearing on taste but that last 9ml into the cup is coming out of the group under no pressure

                        I suppose it’s an easy experiment to do taste wise for the Nurri owners. Try a coffee one with venting the group one without it and see what the difference in taste is.

                        I doubt it has any adverse impact on taste.

                            Cuprajake

                            I don’t flush the grouphwad before shots.

                            Maybe I am less discerning but there is a boundary beyond whixh coffeemaking becomes too microscopic for me and it becomes stressful rarher than the relaxing routine that it is suoposed to be for me. If those last few dribs after i cut the shot can make such a big difference to turn a great shot into a poor shot, then I’m not noticing that and if I’m not, maybe it isn’t really having any discernible impact. If it is having some impact, then maybe I actually ike the difference that it is making. Either way is fine with me …

                                tompoland

                                I thought dave was merely talking about trying to make the puck not be so soggy so that its easier to clean and the water can be vented out faster?

                                  chlorox I imagine that in order to achieve that sort of control a new lever grouphead would need to be designed that can immediately control by demand the exact volume of water that is allowed to enter the grouphead on every pull

                                  Well… if you do that, then there will be air in the group. Anyone who uses or used a la Pavoni before know about the “spongy” pull effect.

                                      MediumRoastSteam

                                      I imagine that would be a danger of that. Personally I don’t really require such a capability in a lever though it would be nice to be able to change the spring pressure on demand without dismantling the grouphead as per how the idrocompresso is supposed to be able to do

                                        The bit I do not understand, and please can a Nurri owner explain to me…..you can vent a single group machine which technically speeds up the operation by a few seconds……so what? The research Dave s doing is to assist multi group machines where saving a few seconds per shot really does count. So, unless you have a queue at your door, and we assume that the venting idea does not actually have an effect on the taste of the shot, then I simply do not get it (yet!).
                                        In addition, I accept that the vent removes the water on top of the puck but what about the ater within the puck?

                                        https://www.suddencardiacarrestuk.org/2024/02/thank-goodness-for-madeira-cake/

                                          tompoland
                                          Have a 2 minute shower or shower with someone else(in my experience that can lead to longer showers or criminal charges).
                                          A liter a week as a problem?
                                          One of my brothers just had 20,000litres of drinking quality water delivered for $200.

                                            tompoland if I could do it without wasting that water, that would certainly be better.

                                            I suspect that’s impossible, as the amount of water into the brewing chamber is determined by the volume left by the piston; so much ends in the cup, so much is soaked up by the puck. What’s left is wasted - in the sense that even if it would be possible to re-route it to the tank, it would have been in contact with quite a lot of stuff for a bit, and I personally would not want it ‘back in the circuit’.

                                              chlorox
                                              Sort of sounds like a Decent.
                                              These pressure relief systems seem to address one issue and create another minor one(cleaning).
                                              I’m not sure how complicated I would like to see this become.

                                                  chlorox this is the exact reason i dont own and wont own a refractometer, and i also think companies prey on this, pushing boundries etc

                                                  theres a massive study showing how groups of experts couldnt taste the difference lol

                                                  Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                                                      dfk41

                                                      Its just an additional way to terminate the shot and avoid the poorertasting flow at the end of the shot from getting into the cup. So if u have the nurri and you want to cut the shot, either you use the left paddle or you use the tupperware technique or you remove the cup altogether and let it drip into the driptray. If you have a conventional lever, you can use the last two options. It’s just about havingoptions and as a matter of practice, for me, using the left paddle is a nicer and easier option than doing the other two.l ways.

                                                          Cuprajake

                                                          That reminds me of hifi a s a hobby - so much of that is a waste of money going into subjective dead ends that would fail a double blind test. My rule is - if it tastes good, I have a good shot 😀

                                                            Amberale

                                                            Sorry I’m losing track of posts- what sounds like a decent? Do you mean my response to tompoland’s idea to be able to save rhe water in tbe grouohead instead of wasting it?