Hi All, recently moved over from the coffee forums after I realised everyone had left, just wanted to see what peoples thoughts are on the zerowater jugs? https://zerowater.co.uk/pages/shop are they actually good enough to use in a high end coffee machine?

Mik3 Welcome to the forum, yeah I think people like the Zerowater jugs, they definitely work. Some do like to remineralise so it won’t scale but tastes better. @Rob1 will probably stop in to advise. I guess all the adverts on CFUK starting to hurt your eyes…plus not a lot going on there now. Mainly business spam, paid forum fluffers, and the one post BTC machine users. 😉

DavecUK think it was mainly the signatures of people like yourself saying you no longer used the forums that made me look elsewhere haha landed here with incredible timing for a deal on a new machine too so it’s already working out for the best! I previously had an under sink 6 stage RO system but don’t have the space for it here so looking for an alternate solution that requires no plumbing in / drilling through worktops without spending too much good to know, cheers

Mik3 without spending too much This is very relative. What’s your budget please ? Apart from ZeroWater , the other counter top ROs would also work well - Osmio Zero, Skuma water to name a few. The latter isn’t released yet I think, while the former will set you back by £450-£500 inc accessories. As Dave said, people are happy with ZeroWater. I won’t know what the frequency of filter change would be. We have some ZW users, who will be able to advise you.

LMSC yeah I have seen the osmio zero but was a touch on the pricey side at the moment as I also need a new grinder 😂 so far as budget it’s really as cheap as I can get but that will ensure the new coffee machine is cared for from day one. Was thinking the zerowater would be a good option as I can get a 2.8l jug (big enough to fill the water tank in the machine) and 4 spare cartridges for ~£80 currently, just conscious that a £40 jug might not be as good as it claimed? My old under counter fixed unit was less than £300 but I left it in my last house, the glass kettle I had for 5 years still had a mirror finish on the element so really looking for the best I can get without breaking the bank to keep my machine as clean as I can

Mik3 Neither I know what your machine is nor the ZW. Of course, we understand the budget constraint. So, spend wisely. If we are spending Ks on a machine, it remains good for a long time assuming she gets good water and TLC. We also have to be aware of the frequency of filter change, the cost of filters and a temporary or a permanent nature of the water solution. The longer the duration, the higher the cost and more so, if l hard water. The ROs may also require frequent filter change if you live in a hard water area. Some of us have Osmio Zero; she gets softened water. The filter therefore lasts 1 year at least. We view the one-time outlay as worth every penny. We drink, cook and feeds the coffee machine. Edit : I think @dutchy101 uses the Zero Jug.

I’m not sure you’ll get 2.8l of purified water in that jug from a single fill. The filtration media has quite a lot of resistance, I found that if the bottom got too full, flow would stop. It was good for about a litre a time from the 2.3L version. If I bought a Zerowater again, I’d go for a larger reservoir.

LMSC yeah unfortunately the water here is classified as hard, it’s another reason I want to ensure there is a good level of filtering prior to any of it going anywhere, conscious £60 every 4-6 months would be adding up quickly on top of the £450 “If you have a hardness level over 250 Calcium Carbonate then you may need to change the carbon block and membrane more frequently than every 6 months.” the water company tells me it’s 281 mg/l of calcium carbonate

MWJB good to know, thanks for the insight, I was thinking it meant 2.8l filtered but most likely it’s the jugs capacity then

I’ve been using the 2.8l zero jug for about 4 months & remineralising for coffee. I reckon the usable capacity is around 2.6-2.7l from filling my 5l water bottle. Luckily I live in a soft water area < 50mg hardness & the original filter is still going strong running about 10 litres a week through it. The only minor niggle is the cover over the spout. It doesn’t open enough on its own when pouring so the water stream can be broad & if you manually open it won’t lock into place fully & flips down when pouring. So I end up having to hold the dam thing open. I suppose I could remove it but I do like that it prevents anything dropping in the jug.

Mik3 Do you have a whole house softener installed?

Zero water jugs

CoyoteOldMan

MediumRoastSteam To be honest, I suspect that there is no difference between RO and DI demineralised water. If it’s H₂O, it’s H₂O

LMSC

CoyoteOldMan So, a visit here needs to be arranged, I suppose.

MediumRoastSteam

CoyoteOldMan - I’m not quite so sure. But again, I can’t explain why. I tried RO water at Dave’s, both from the Osmio and from the undercounted RO system. That’s drinkable and tastes OK.

Distilled water… Not quite the same.Surprising, I know, but I don’t know why.

dutchy101

LMSC The tea from mineralised RO is lighter and taste a lot better. I always found the tea with hard water even with a drop of milk was harsher in taste.

My wife far, far prefers the tea made from the service boiler, which is zero water and sodium bicarbonate than from the kettle. Not only does it taste a lot better, but it even looks so much better too.

I live in London and the tap water is pretty horrendous, so maybe not such a surprise

LMSC

dutchy101

I don’t see any zero water deals at the moment except 30 cup. That’s too big.

CoyoteOldMan

LMSC Where is “here”, if I may ask?

You are always welcome here if you visit your daughter in London and go by Oxford!

LMSC

CoyoteOldMan We live in Wokingham! Thanks for invitation. Much appreciated.

This is rather an unusual year for us. Covid relaxations have exposed us to unusually large number of guests, who have been visiting us since May this year; They will be (in addition to an 83 year old staying with us) until the until the end of Nov. So, although we are kind of frozen out for this year, we could pencil something in in Wokingham as well early next year! :-)

CoyoteOldMan

LMSC For some strange reason, I thought you were in Lancashire! Then “here” to “there” is easy. Even on a pushbike and a Zero Jug in a rucksack.

LMSC

CoyoteOldMan Exactly. Shouting distance - you, MRS, Dave and self!

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam The RO leaves traces of minerals in there. Did you by any chance drink mineralised? Does Dave use the mineralisation cartridge ?

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC I tried from the Osmio with the remineralisation cartridge and from the RO under the sink, which I think it was just RO water.

Water from the Osmio does taste great I must say!

dutchy101

Zero Water doesn’t taste great - I’ve tried it a few times and not sold on it at all.

Remineralised Zero Water through the machine with coffee / tea however is a different animal.

Doram

dutchy101

dutchy101 Zero Water doesn’t taste great - I’ve tried it a few times and not sold on it at all.

Remineralised Zero Water through the machine with coffee / tea however is a different animal.

How about reminerlised Zero Water without coffee / tea - how does that taste?

MediumRoastSteam

dutchy101 Remineralised Zero Water through the machine with coffee / tea however is a different animal.

Yeah, same with distilled. I wouldn’t drink it, but as espresso, it’s good. As filter (more water I suppose) is awful.

CoyoteOldMan

Doram Bad. Well, not bad - tasteless and not refreshing. At least, to me.

MediumRoastSteam

My understanding is that pure water, I.e: distilled, is odourless, insipid and transparent. These are the tree basic characteristics of water. Therefore, the taste you get when drinking distilled water is actually the taste of your own mouth, rather than the minerals in it - as it has none.

coffeealex

Sorry if this has already been answered, 2 questions re Zero water:

Zero water is NOT recommended for espresso machines WITHOUT remineralisation as espresso machines need some minerals to work correctly. Is this statement correct?
As zero water removes all minerals, what quantity per litre of Bicarbonate of Soda is needed to create an alkalinity buffer and not prevent corrosion/scaling?

CoyoteOldMan

coffeealex I would rephrase your first point more as “coffee needs some alkalinity (and arguably other ions) to taste at its best”. Adding some buffering compound also helps with any corrosion from DI water

Many people like an alkalinity between 40 and 60 ppm (CaCO₃ equivalent), which means adding 67 to 100 mg of NaHCO₃ for every litre of DI water. That will be ample to prevent corrosion; scaling will depend on whether you also add Calcium and/or Magnesium compounds to the water. If you don’t… no scale.

coffeealex

CoyoteOldMan

I think eventually I will go down your route of making a saline solution, and then adding it to zero water. This will make things easier in practical terms. Just a little confused at what is the difference between adding bicarbonate of soda or potassium bicarbonate?

MediumRoastSteam

coffeealex - I tried both and I can’t taste the difference. The reason behind is that coffee already contains potassium, so adding a bit more should not distort anything.

CoyoteOldMan

coffeealex In addition to MediumRoastSteam reply, two ‘practical’ differences:

Sodium bicarbonate is commonly available in supermarkets; potassium is easy to find, but not as easy. Both are very cheap.
If you use potassium, then instead of 67 - 100 mg/l you need to use 80 - 120 mg/l to get 40 - 60 KH

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