Channeling

hedonist222

18 grams in a VST 18 gram basket - aiming for 26 out in between 28 and 32 seconds

RDT into grinder

gentle but thorough WDT

The same happens in 20 gram VST basket

In this video I let it rise to 4 bars ( about 5 seconds at 3.4 ml per second) via flow control device - then when it starts to appear I raise it to the standard 9 bar (7.5 ml per second)

It starts out ok but then immediately I get these blanks (from 20 seconds)

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- Machine: Rocket Cinquanttoto

- Grinder: Ceado e37sd

- Roast date: 3 weeks ago

- Dose: How many grams are going into your basket? 18

- Yield: How much coffee in grams is coming out? 36

- Time: How long is the shot running? see clip timer

- Roast level: How dark is your coffee? (Dark, medium, light, ect.) light to medium

DavecUK

hedonist222 I imagine you are single dosing the Ceado, not running with any sort of hopper?

To get a feel for what might be going on…

Run a straight 9 bar shot (normal flow rate) and adjust the grind for that, see if you can get that going OK
Do you have to grind finer for your flow controlled shot compared to the 9 bar shot
VST baskets need a finer grind… if the 9 bar shot goes well, change to a standard basket and try a flow control shot…is it better

Do those things for now…they are more diagnostics than anything else.

Cuprajake

Vst baskets are really hard to use,

Id try a different basket first to see if you still have issues. If you do then basket prep will likely be the cause

hedonist222

DavecUK

Its a single-dose grinder without a hopper.

Just a bellows.

Running a straight 9 bar at stock flow rate is slightly worse. Meaning that sparse channeling appears earlier.

I usually do grind a little finer when using the flow control - but as above. The same happens even when I use the machine without the FCD.

I’ve tried finer but it usually chokes the machine.

I’ll try to delicately set it slightly finer.

Inspector

What tamper do you use?

hedonist222

Inspector

Decent - their leveled tamper

Rob1

Doesn’t look distributed properly or tamped evenly.

The Ceado is called a single dose grinder but you’ll see the same problems with it when single dosing the standard version, i.e the grind setting effectively drifts through the dose as there’s a reducing weight pushing the beans into the burrs from start to finish, this won’t help things. As far as I’m aware the only thing that’s different about this and the standard E37s is that it comes with a set of bellows. I’d use a bit of perspex tube and keep a few doses in there with a weight on top to avoid issues associated with single dosing.

Sort out distribution and tamping and don’t worry about how thin and patchy the extraction looks.

18:26 is going to be a very low EY, though that doesn’t mean it won’t taste good if you want a simple, concentrated shot.

hedonist222

Rob1

Honestly - the e37sd has been consistent

weigh-wise and grind consistency.

I can replicate those spotty shots each and every time.

Also, I use a Decent - their leveled tamper.

Could perhaps be my WDT.

Rob1

hedonist222 Honestly - the e37sd has been consistent

weigh-wise and grind consistency.

If you grind three doses and collect the first third, second third, and final third from each you’ll probably see very different shot times. Even collecting the first and half and second half from two doses should reveal differences in grind consistency evident in different shot times and pours. Tamping level is guaranteed with the tamper but you still need to get the coffee even in the basket to start with. Even though the E37sd will suffer the same problem as all other single dosing grinders to one extent or another I wouldn’t expect it to be the cause of bad shots by itself.

The shot doesn’t start out ok to my eyes, and those blanks from 20 seconds onwards probably wouldn’t be anything to worry about if the shot were to start evenly and come together in a single stream quickly. Maybe check to be sure the machine is level too, it’s a simple check to perform to avoid unnecessary and endless faffing with distribution and wdt.

hedonist222

Rob1

Thanks for your input

Which machine is level?

The grinder?

Its on a table and should be level.

Nothings rolling off I mean.

But I’ll check with a spirit level.

Rob1

hedonist222

hedonist222 Which machine is level

The espresso machine. Check the group head is level…

Cuprajake

You cant diagnose a shot from the looks, taste it.

Dont worry about the god shot. The vst basket womt be helping

For perspective.

simonc

Cuprajake I’m sure the sentiment is right, but this video doesn’t help. As a newbie and someone who likes data this just asks more questions than it answers. He pulled 2 entirely differently set up shots that tasted different and happened to look different.

If the message was do what’s best for the taste and ignore the look, much like people say don’t fixate on the 30 second mark, then make the point with similar setups. Alli want to know is about the weight difference, the filter paper, the puck screen on the impact of the taste.

I get perfect even appearance of drops on my vst with thorough wdt and a level bed that I tamp with leveling tamper. No need to pack more on the edges. So what’s the take away? I need to look at all the other variables that were different in his video to get a better shot?

hornbyben

Mine often look like that but taste good (also with an 18g vst basket. What I have noticed though is that I hardly ever get sprayers like I did when my puck prep was poorer. My current hypothesis is that due to the very small hole sizes they just sometimes get blocked and you get dead spots. I’m not convinced this means the coffee above that isn’t extracting, as the taste is good and the timing repeatable.

Del_UK

I’d echo the “looks aren’t everything” posts. I’m rocking 3 beans at the moment, some Columbian, Nicaraguan and Yemeni, the latter looks like a car crash compared to the other 2 coming out of the basket (so much so that I ditched the naked portafilter for a while) but my golly does it taste good!

hedonist222

I finally figured it out.

I tried the stock Rocket basket and it was even and no gaps.

Either that’s how VST baskets work or I need to learn how to avoid this with VST baskets.

Rob1

VST baskets are less forgiving but that’s not how all extractions look using VSTs.

DavecUK

simonc Every time one of my shots go “wrong”….I’ll think of these words.

simonc

DavecUK the appearance of the drops is “perfect” but the shot most definitely isn’t. 😭