Espresso machine questions...oOo enticing click me!

LMSC

I have never owned an E61. Based on what I read, machines like Bianca would also require equal amount of cleaning, back flush, lubing after the back flush. Of course, machines like Minima are different. I do think levers like Evo are easy on the maintenance.

Edit :

In summary, please buy what you like. Did you say, you have sorted your water?

Ernie1

Don’t let the popularity of single-dosing sway your purchasing decisions if you’re happy grinding on-demand.

I know my method is sacrilegious in 2022 but I’ve been making espresso at home for like 15 years, lived in East London in the 2000s/10s when the third-wave was taking off. I lived close enough to Square Mile to smell them roasting and got my daily coffee from Ozone when they first opened. I’m no stranger to a decent coffee, but:

I fill the hopper with a weeks worth of beans sometimes, use a spouted PF, Stockfleth the basket (basically using my hand to distribute) and I thoroughly enjoy the coffee I make.

I fully acknowledge the benefits of fresher beans, single-dosing and proper care when distributing but for me they’re diminishing returns.

Again though, it’s what works for you! Some people love more process, some people love Nespresso! The key is finding a method that you enjoy repeating multiple times a day every day so you don’t end up getting frustrated and selling up.

I can say with certainty though (I own one as you know) the x54 is a great espresso grinder if you’re not single dosing and I wouldn’t say you’d need to upgrade that before getting a machine.

Frothbewithyou

Cuprajake Sorry I didn’t mean to confuse you. I am only looking/researching the espresso machine side and I am happy with my grinder setup.

Also please don’t get me wrong cleaning and greasing is like a 30 min job. I just don’t want to mod or repair anything if I don’t 100% have to and would rather pay a professional to do it if that option is available.

So we already have a split with Levers versus E61? (Not sure what that is)

LMSC Do lever machines require to sit in the upright position when not in use?

Also I am in no rush to buy right this second so don’t worry about deals in the here and now. I am a very patient person, who is on a research expedition and am willing to save rather than rebuy long term.

Also the Bianca has been mentioned (again without ruffling any feathers), I appreciate the machine is top draw, aesthetically I prefer other brands design (ECM,ACS minima/vesuvious v10, Rocket, Profitec) and makes in that range (MaraX).

Tell you what though keeping my on-call interesting must have looked at 20+ machines now.

How is getting them to the UK? Is it just an import tax usually? I notice some shops in the UK tend to just do one brand etc.

Frothbewithyou

Ernie1 Agreed I am not looking to spend extra money on a grinder. I spent a very long time and number of posts picking these two in combination and have them for a number of months they are perfect for me.

I just want to slot in a beautiful espresso machine in this gap and join the next phase of coffee and also coffee up my failed barista days of old with actually knowing what to do :D

LMSC

Frothbewithyou

You pay ACS, you get a DHL shipment notification, VAT+Tax demand by DHL, you pay and gets delivered at home.

Frothbewithyou lever machines require to sit in the upright position when not in use?

HVL87

As you like the ECM aesthetic I would consider the ECM Synchronika. You are paying a significant premium over the Bianca for the brand and overall quality/finish. Flow profiling would be an additional cost though.

As noise is a consideration I would make sure to buy a machine with a rotary pump. If noise wasn’t a concern the Minima would be great value (as you also like the look of it).

In your shoes I probably wouldn’t buy the Vesuvius or Evo as it seems like you would benefit from a local retailer warranty (2 years at Bella Barista for example). I would always be concerned about damage in transit as well.

Frothbewithyou

LMSC Ok so Levers in my kitchen, I have alot of above counter cupboards which the lever would play havoc with and probably aggravate my wife no end.

So lets rule out levers and go more traditional? Whats ACS non levers like or would we move to another brand then?

HVL87 ahh this answers another question I had about pumps so rotaary seems a great shout, I would prefer quieter. I don’t mind paying a premium for finish within reason of course.

See I quite like the Vesuvius V10 look, again I think with me warranty is key and buying from a well respected retailer or seller.

Like a detective series this!

LMSC

Frothbewithyou Some have managed to keep levers even with the cupboards.

Vesuvius is what I would suggest from ACS. It is a top act and no brainer at that price point.

HVL87

Frothbewithyou See I quite like the Vesuvius V10 look, again I think with me warranty is key and buying from a well respected retailer or seller.

So that would be a purchase directly from ACS and shipped from Italy, I believe with a parts only warranty.

Otherwise the Vesuvius will do everything you need (plus more). I have an ACS Minima myself.

Ernie1

Is ECM noticeably better quality than Lelit? I do like the aesthetic of ECM but not seen one in person to compare with Lelit.

I must say I couldn’t find a single flaw with the construction of the Bianca. Arrived flawless, and still looks that way after 6 months of daily use.

Frothbewithyou

HVL87 How do you find the Minima? Is the V10 a needless upgrade or does it bring some decent useful features to the table? I have read the spec sheet but it doesn’t mean alot to me in real terms.

Frothbewithyou

Ernie1 Its just personal preference for me and I am sure people love the look of lelit, I just love the styling of the ones suggested.

Ernie1

Frothbewithyou

Yeah for sure, tbh I think the ECM looks great too, I’d be happy with either.

I was just curious about build quality, I know ECM have a great reputation but I can’t fault the Lelit build either.

Frothbewithyou

Ernie1 Yeah I’d be interested in the answer. You know the classic questions

Which brand is overcosted and you are paying for the name?
Which brand has/is famed for stellar build quality?

Like I know that Sage is not one for the purists and my Dad owns one and he is the Sage one touch consumer to a tea.

I am just wondering though if its like watches (another hobby of mine) and whether at a certain point its all quality and bespoke parts and its workflow and aesthetics that decides what you buy?!?

HVL87

Ernie1 I haven’t compared either but Lelit have to save money somewhere. I believe the gauge of steel is thinner for example. I think most would be very happy with the Bianca but the OP doesn’t like the aesthetic. Of course if you’re going to make such a decision it makes sense to see both machines in person if possible. Also Lelit now being owned by Breville may/may not be a consideration for potential new owners.

Frothbewithyou

The Minima Is great but the pump is noisy. The Vesuvius has a quieter gear pump (haven’t heard it in person). The Minima doesn’t have as good a finish as the ECM Sync/Lelit Bianca/ACS Vesuvius (drip tray, plastic knobs, water reservoir, stickers etc.) but it’s very solid where it counts and easier to maintain without a lever (the brew switch is very satisfying). Boilers are large so great for back to back shots and it’s one of the few machines in which the boilers heat up in parallel.

The Vesuvius is a pressure profiling machine - this feature is a significant upgrade. It allows you to set a profile/s which adjusts the pressure over the duration of shot. This is great if you want to try to get the best out of your beans (lighter roasts from example). Whilst you can add flow profiling to an E61 machine (included on the Bianca) where you adjust flow to mimic a reduction in pressure, this process is manual and not necessarily as repeatable as on a pressure profiling machine, which you can set and forget.

My only question on the Vesuvius is how well it tracks a pressure profile e.g. I have seen videos where it overshoots the pressure and takes time to reach the target. Maybe a Vesuvius owner or @Patrick can comment.

Ernie1

The Breville thing is a good point. If I was buying new today I’d go with the ECM.

HVL87

I will add that often you don’t know what you want/need until you start using a machine for yourself and understand how it all works. That’s the problem!

HVL87

Ernie1 only thing is the ECM Sync is £2379 without flow profiling! Quite a difference vs £1900 on the Bianca with flow profiling included.

Frothbewithyou

HVL87 Ernie1
Thanks @HVL87 I think noise reduction is something I would pay more for so thanks for the heads up.

Your point on seeing these machines in the flesh would be amazing! Is their a UK convention or even a showroom where you can look at a large range of brands and machines?!?

All my aesthetics points are based on website supplied images or YouTube videos and I can completely understand if they are flawed. I have also factored in their recent purchase by a bigger company in why Lelit is not so high on my list of potential brands I would choose.

Also if I don’t narrow it down in some arbitrary way, like looks or something I will never decide and go round and round in circles.

HVL87

Frothbewithyou Your point on seeing these machines in the flesh would be amazing! Is their a UK convention or even a showroom where you can look at a large range of brands and machines?!?

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk

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