Lelit Elizabeth Brew Boiler Temperature on warmup.

LiquidAir

I’ve noticed that, when the Elizabeth first warms up in the morning, the brew boiler ends up too hot. Currently I have it set to 86C but, if I check on it 20 minutes after I first turn it on, I’ll see it at around 115C. I’ll purge the group head and run perhaps 150g of hot water to cool down the boiler. That’ll bring it down below 85C and, from there, it warms back up to 86C and seems stable from then on. Just for reference, the steam boiler is still at its factory setting of 135C (I’ve only had the machine for a few weeks).

Is the behavior I should expect? Now that I understand the behavior I can work with it, but its definitely surprising.

JahLaza

LiquidAir yes, it’s how it should work, it’s what ensures the machine is up to preset temp in 17 minutes. It overshoots to 115 or something first to heat the whole machine/group then settles back to your preset it’s normal, and a great feature!

MediumRoastSteam

LiquidAir - please read:

https://sway.office.com/YUuIpMmQlYAFkxIO?ref=Link

With emphasis on the “Express Warm Up” topic.

You may want to read the whole thing over a few days, and also consider reading the “LCC Quick Reference for Basic and Advanced functions”, and, while there, read the “Maintenance and Pro Tips”.

And only then you’ll understand the mystique of the Elizabeth. 😉

DavecUK

LiquidAir You may want to look again at the 86C brew temperature. The usual range people use is from 90 to 96C. A few people might use 89C but that is considered quite cool.

Inspector

Is there any particular reason that you set your machine to 86C?

MediumRoastSteam

LiquidAir I’ve been using 18g (in a 20g VST basket) to get 36g out

Why a 20g VST basket? If you want 18g inside the basket, why not use a VST 18g basket?

VST baskets are rated to a +/- 1g. Doing what you are doing, you are effectively grinding significantly finer, and increasing the headspace considerably.

LiquidAir Ok, that makes sense. Does it mean I should wait for the brew boiler to cool down to the set temperature before brewing so I know the group head is up to temperature?

with regards to when the time to pull a shot is, again:

MediumRoastSteam please read:

https://sway.office.com/YUuIpMmQlYAFkxIO?ref=Link

With emphasis on the “Express Warm Up” topic.

The answer is in bold letters.

LiquidAir

Ok, that makes sense. Does it mean I should wait for the brew boiler to cool down to the set temperature before brewing so I know the group head is up to temperature?

As for the 86C, my most recent bag of beans (I have a Trade subscription so I get a different bean every two weeks) is a moderately dark roast and I was experimenting with lower temperatures to take the bitter edge of it. I’ll kick the temperature up to 90C and experiment with a shorter draw instead.

One of the challenges I have been facing is shot consistency; I’ve been using 18g (in a 20g VST basket) to get 36g out and, for the same grind setting on the Niche my shot times are anywhere from about 23s on the low end to 29s on the high end. Any thoughts on the degree of variability that is reasonably achievable?

dndrich

LiquidAir I have the same setup. I run my Elizabeth at 198 degrees (92C) for moderately dark roasts. I use 6 seconds of pre infusion with the pump running for 3 seconds per Dave Corbey advanced settings. I use 16 in with 32 out, and it is very consistent with the Niche. I typically run around 32 seconds total. It is the same shot to shot, especially now that I do not RDT. Perhaps it is your puck prep? Furthermore, I am running drip coffee first, and then dialing the Niche down to the espresso range with no purge, and it is still consistent. My puck prep is pretty simple. Grind, invert the dosing cup into the portafilter, shake a bit, remove the cup, tap to even, no WDT, tap on the bench, tamp, and then brew. Very nice results. I also have a Trade subscription. I love it.

Thomas101

I bought a VST basket, but I did find not find it very satisfying.

So I went back stock basket. Maybe I need to learn the machine better. Now I find it bette suite my taste.

Thomas101

I have mine set at 93 Celsius.

dndrich

The stock basket is terrific in my opinion. Made by a great manufacturer. I find the sweet spot for me is around 16-16.5 gm. I do not see a reason to change the basket. Also works well with my naked portafilter.

LiquidAir

Clive Coffee convinced to buy the 20g VST basket. I’ve switched to the stock basket which is an IMS 14-18g basket and still dosing 18g. I’ve also bumped the temperature up to 92C So far it looks like I am getting more consistent shot times but it’ll take a few more days before I am sure.

On my old BBE I had a 54mm IMS basket (also 14-18g) and I had been dosing 16g for a couple reasons—both I wanted a finer grind as the shots were sour at 18g and I figured starting in the middle of the range would give me more flexibility to adjust. Are the VST baskets more sensitive to dose? Should I treat a 20g basket as 19-21g?

I’m going to stick with with 18g in the IMS basket for the time being and see if I can dial in a variety of coffees with reasonable consistency. Perhaps the right answer for under extracted shots is a higher ratio over a longer time.

dndrich

LiquidAir Yeah I think the IMS basket is just great. I only go 16 gm because that is where Dave felt the sweet spot was. If 18 gm dose is working go for it! I have not had issues with the puck sticking to the screen, or any other problems, so I stick with the 16 gm dose and call it a day…

LiquidAir

dndrich

Right now I am looking for shot-to-shot consistency. The next step is to figure out what parameters I can change to improve flavor without losing consistency. I’ll definitely give 16g in the 18g IMS basket a try as that’s where I was on my BBE. For the moment I am dosing 18g with the idea of changing one variable at a time.

dndrich

LiquidAir Yes exactly! That is why I have been so happy with my Niche and my Elizabeth. Most of the folks on this board have a more sophisticated palette than I do. I make typically two flat white/Latte’s a day back to back; one for the wife and one for me. It is nice when they are the same. They are always delicious.

LiquidAir

I’ve been doing a bunch of testing with the stock IMS basket; 16g, 17g, and 18g shots have been reasonably consistent. Under filling the VST basket seems to have been the primary cause of wide variance in shot time, At some point I might come back to the VST to see what it takes to use it effectively but, for the time being, I’m going to stick with IMS.